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Bedrock Talks from Bedrock Learning
Welcome to Bedrock Talks, a podcast from the team at Bedrock Learning that delves deep into the heart of literacy in education. Hosted by the insightful and experienced educator Andy Sammons, this podcast stands as a beacon for anyone passionate about enhancing literacy skills and understanding its pivotal role in education.
Each episode is a journey into the world of literacy education. Andy brings together a diverse array of voices from across the education sector, from seasoned teachers to renowned academics, policy makers to literacy advocates. All of our guests share a common goal: to explore and expand the horizons of literacy education.
We go beyond surface-level conversations. Our discussions are in-depth, nuanced, and filled with insights that only years of experience and expertise can bring. We tackle a wide range of topics, from innovative teaching methods to the latest research in literacy, the impact of technology on reading and writing, to strategies for engaging diverse learners. Our aim is to provide a platform where the complexities of literacy are unpacked and understood in a way that is both accessible and enlightening.
Join Andy and his guests as they illuminate the multifaceted world of literacy. Subscribe to Bedrock Talks and be part of a community that believes in the transformative power of literacy. Together, let's shape a more literate, informed, and connected world.
Bedrock Talks from Bedrock Learning
37. Building a vocabulary-led curriculum with Lauren Bishop and Natalie Miles
When literacy becomes everyone's responsibility, something remarkable happens to a school's culture. In this captivating conversation, we speak to Lauren Bishop (Literacy Coordinator and English Teacher) and Natalie Miles (Assistant Head) from The Bishop's Stortford High School about their journey to place vocabulary at the heart of their curriculum.
What began as a targeted intervention quickly transformed into a school-wide approach that's yielding exceptional results. Lauren and Natalie share how they've strategically moved vocabulary instruction beyond the English department, creating dedicated systems and structures that ensure equitable access for all students. Their thoughtful implementation includes digital access audits, multiple completion opportunities at school, and a centralised literacy team that removes barriers to participation.
The conversation delves into the critical importance of Tier 2 vocabulary – those slightly more sophisticated words that unlock access to subject-specific terminology across the curriculum. As Natalie explains: "We wanted to make sure that students had equitable access to our secondary curriculum." This underpinning foundation enables students to navigate more complex concepts in every subject area.
Perhaps most compelling are the stories of impact on student confidence and classroom engagement. From students proudly identifying "Bedrock words" in discussions to approaching teachers in the playground to share their extra practice, the school has created a culture where vocabulary development is visible, celebrated, and transformative.
This episode offers practical insights for any school looking to elevate literacy from a checkbox exercise to a fundamental driver of student success. As Bishop's Stortford's headteacher regularly reminds staff: "Literacy is everybody's job" – and this podcast reveals exactly how to make that philosophy a reality.
Subscribe to the Bedrock Talks literacy podcast for more conversations with educators who are transforming literacy instruction in their schools.
Hi everyone and thank you for continuing to download and subscribe to the Bedrock Talks literacy podcast. I'm Andy Sammons, the Head of Teaching. Subscribe to the Bedrock Talks literacy podcast. I'm Andy Sammons, the head of teaching and learning at Bedrock Learning. It's my privilege to work with schools all around the world, helping them with their literacy agendas, underpinned by Bedrock from the Bishop Stortford High School, who are right at the chalk face of one of our most successful, robust implementations, and I think it's really important. We speak to some incredible people on the podcast from all around the world of education, and we also need to speak to colleagues who are just nailing it and just really putting bedrock and literacy as well more importantly, not just bedrock but literacy at the heart of everything they're doing in their curriculum. So it's a real privilege to speak to these guys today.
Speaker 1:It has been a long time coming. I've been chasing poor Lauren for this, hounding her in her inbox, for months now. So we have Lauren Bishop, who's the literacy coordinator at Bishop's Dorkford High School and teacher of English, and Nathalie Miles, an assistant head teacher from the school and one of her key roles is literacy and I like that. She said before. I don't think she noticed this. But she said literacy and oracy and I think that's a really important thing, a distinction to make as well around with now the importance of oracy and hopefully that's not going to just be a checkbox in the new framework as we move forward. And that's a very, very important um aspect to consider when you think about. You know, our ceo was on the pod and he said when he founded bedrock, he wanted to connect brains with mouths, he wanted to connect the way people were feeling with how they could then communicate that with other people and themselves as well, and emotional literacy. So, um, we're going to explore a number of aspects of the bishop's stortford high high school's implementation today.
Speaker 1:So, guys, thank you so much for coming on. It's it's a pleasure to come on. It's a friday, we're near the weekend, I can see that glow at the other end, so I think everyone's happy at the end. So thank you, guys for coming on, really, really appreciate it, thank you. So, first of all, we're sat here in a position where your engagement and your impact in terms of vocab growth is phenomenal. We're sat in a really successful situation right now. But I want to go right back to the start and get kind of under the skin of of why you chose bedrock kind of. Could you take me through that process, give us a sense of how and why you chose bedrock to be a part of your literacy strategy?
Speaker 2:yeah, absolutely well. Thank you firstly for a very generous introduction always lovely to hear on a Friday. So for us it was about being secondary ready. We are in the position where we have multiple feeder schools coming into us and therefore, whilst I'm not overly keen on the phrase, one of the things that we wanted to ensure is that we had the capacity to level the playing field.
Speaker 2:Obviously, as we know, we were coming out of the pandemic when the engagement with bedrock learning began and we needed to find a system and a process that meant we were working really efficiently and effectively from when students joined us to try to close the vocabulary gap.
Speaker 2:You know we are very, very aware of the national vocabulary gaps and it's a piece of work that we've been doing in school now for many years well, for the last sort of five years and we knew that that was most likely to play out in tier two vocabulary. We know the months of gaps for students are just so hard to close and they just widen in secondary school and we understood the role that we play there as secondary educators in closing those gaps. We knew the gaps were only going to get bigger as the years and the differences and the nuances in students coming through to us, based on the years that they may have missed in education, and we wanted to make sure that students had equitable access to our secondary curriculum and therefore they needed to be secondary ready for us to be assured that they were going to be able to make progress through the curriculum.
Speaker 1:I think it's really interesting when people talk about tier two vocabulary and also tier three vocabulary, because I often think about it as a triangle. You know the idea that tier one is your generic every day. Your tier two is just slightly more awkward level of what, what, basically what they may have encountered at home in some cases or whatever, or they may have read. Tier three is the stuff that I think often people jump to so you can teach the word you know. The one that I've always gets bandied about is photosynthesis.
Speaker 1:Now a science teacher, I can teach the word photosynthesis, but actually in in a real life situation, in an exam situation, if you haven't got the underpinning level of critical exposure to tier two vocabulary underneath it, then you can teach photosynthesis in as wonderful way as you like, but the understanding and the access to that subject specific is going to be undermined, isn't it? Is that I get a sense for me, is that where you really wanted to start in terms of I know you don't like the phrase levelling the playoff. Is that why you were doing that rather than nailing down your concepts in in tier three? Is that why?
Speaker 3:Initially it started, I think, when we first looked at Bedrock. We was like oh, it started, I think when we first looked at Bedrock, we were like, oh, we're going to use it for an intervention. And then, as Natalie said, as we started to understand that the data was going to come in and the gaps were going to widen, we absolutely started looking at it as like a whole year thing and we have sevens and eights on it at the moment because of what you were saying, because of that word level accessibility and getting.
Speaker 3:That it is part of obviously we put it into our teaching, but it is part of building those foundations into the words like photosynthesis, because if they don't know what synthesize is, putting the photo in front of it, for example, is not going to help they go. So we know what synthesizer, then the kids go. No, I don't amen to that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's so handy sorry, andy went hand in hand with um and this probably just slightly, slightly before lauren's time, but it did go hand in hand with explicit teaching and learning, uh, instruction for staff on how to have a vocabulary led curriculum. So we couldn't have had the success we've had with Bedrock without also implementing whole school strategies on vocabulary-led curriculums and explicitly making plans for that to be the case. Quite clear evidence from quality assurance mechanisms, area reviews, observations that tier three vocabulary was already being explicitly taught in our classrooms, and post-pandemic. We wanted to ensure that tier two vocabulary was also explicitly taught in our classrooms Because ultimately that's where the main difference will be made.
Speaker 1:Regardless of any intervention programmes, teaching and learning is the the fundamental component I think it's one thing I worry about is the, is the phrase quality first teaching is I think it's a really important. Of course it is. The teacher is the agent. The teacher is the critical person, as the, as the quarterback that makes things happen. But I do I worry about phrases like quality first teaching, like reading for pleasure, sometimes that that doesn't quite get to the heart of well, they run the risk of being quite catch all.
Speaker 1:Whereas it sounds what you've done is, it sounds as if what you've done is really tried to underpin. Well, not just we're doing this and that's how we're doing it, it's more. You're trying to develop, colleagues, understanding of the why of you know this is this isn't this nebulous thing? Bedrock or literacy, isn't this nebulous thing? That kind of just floats and we have to highlight every now and then, to show Natalie and Lauren that we're highlighting in our books, like Capital Letters. It's much more profound and more significant for that, for you guys. Is that why you made that choice to go from an intervention piece to something much wider?
Speaker 2:Partially. Yeah, I'd say that was partially the reason. I think we also realised that it would have a benefit on every child. That it would have a benefit on every child and I think sometimes schools can be quite quick to see interventions as things that are for those students that are just struggling. But actually if you widen the definition of an intervention, it's a supplement to quality first teaching, isn't it?
Speaker 2:And we, I mean I'll pass over to Lauren in a moment, yeah, that's really clever so literally, first attitude in our community, on our school community, and and I'll pass over to lauren because that's, that's definitely more her remit- yeah, I think where we we have it as an intervention for older year groups, but for seven and eight it is compulsory.
Speaker 3:It's homework and I think that is in part because they're coming in from sitting in one classroom and having everything that they need in one room, but now it's like you're going to wear all of these different hats. And Bedrock was one of those tools that we kind of looked at to say how can we gel this kind of cross-curricular vocabulary so that the words that they're seeing in maths or also they can make that connection in science? So we said that, as Natalie touched on, it's a school-wide thing, but also at home, because being a parent of a student who is coming in year seven and year eight and you're going well, I don't know that word because actually the teaching of language and punctuation and grammar is changed from when I was at school and when you were at school, so we're taught to help the parents at home to sit down with them.
Speaker 3:You've got that really great parent login and they can see exactly what they're doing, exactly what, what it is that they're um being asked to do and what that looks like for them. And I think that's really important because it just encourages this, this habit and, um, I suppose, the culture, isn't it?
Speaker 1:yeah, the culture, and we, and that's what we want.
Speaker 3:We want the families and the guardians to be a part of this. It isn't just a we only do this at school and not outside. We're trying to prepare them for the outside world whilst they're with us, and we need families in on that.
Speaker 2:So it absolutely comes into Bedrock helping make that connection between home and between school as well, and I think Lauren would not necessarily sing her own praises here, of course, but she does that so well because she hosts a reading at the Bishop Stortford High School webinar at the beginning of Year 7. And I think one of the challenges secondary schools face, predominantly because we're not trained and skilled in this, especially since the pandemic is it is our job to close reading gaps and to close literacy gaps and to close vocabulary and oracy gaps. However, that's never something that was our job and our role and all of us were trained in a time where kids weren't necessarily struggling or we certainly weren't worrying about the struggling that was happening, the struggling that was happening. And so in that webinar, we really promote um reading at our school and what that looks like and the expectations on students, what they will be expected to do regarding literacy throughout their time with us.
Speaker 1:and it's at that point that we launch um, the engagement with, with bedrock vocabulary I think you've touched something on something really, really important there, which was certainly I mean, I've got children in primary school, one of which is in a couple of years will be in secondary school. So I grew up in in in the blair era and I trained at the back end of you know the kind of when labor came out and there's a whole generation of of parents now, not just teachers we didn't do phonics, did we?
Speaker 1:no, and we didn't do grammar instruction and we didn't do. You know, I got to university and I did linguistics university and, um, I never forget, we did these grammar trees which was like subject, verb, object and it was like element and I, I mean, it cost me this, cost me thousands in therapy. I can't cope with this. What is this? And I went to my professor. I said what the hell? And he said it's just because you're the generation that never got taught it.
Speaker 1:You're the generation that never got taught. And this is why one of the, I think, the great untapped parts of the Bedrock curriculum is the grammar, because it will take you through that very specific, structured key stage two, key stage three aligned grammar instruction and I think I love what you've said there aligned with the fact that you're helping parents and bringing the community into it as well. Um, one of the things that I often struggle with is how do I? I mean, I'm I'm a teacher of over a decade. I've led in schools, I've worked with hundreds of schools, with implementation, and I struggle to do my kids homework with them because I don't know how to support them.
Speaker 2:I'm not primary trained and I need we've all- got ai tools now to teach us how to teach the next generation.
Speaker 1:How would you do this in school now yeah, and I think that's going to play a part, but I still think you need, we need an ai or whatever system it is that's going to drive and knit everything. I mean, you know I use ai tools all day, every day, but you have to them, you have to be able to.
Speaker 2:You know I think, to train them exactly.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, yeah, I spoke to patrick last year, the the ai educator, and he said make no mistake, the people that are literate, the ones that can instruct and navigate the ais, are going to have the power and that's one of the approaches we took with all students in our last assembly with them.
Speaker 2:Actually, we've just launched a really exciting writing tool, because literacy is obviously much more for us. It does play a huge part of our professional development in school, for staff and students, and in that assembly, you know, we we took, no, we had no problems in telling the students what their world will look like and how different it will be from the world we're in now and how different it will be from the world that we were educated in. But that prompt engineering is fundamentally how they will succeed in that world and therefore they need to be able to write well.
Speaker 1:I've just done a course myself. I was very fortunate Bedrock funded me to go through the Oxford Executive Leadership Programme and one of the things I did and I'm never, I'm not ashamed to admit this one of the things I did was I instructed chat GPT that it was a. It was a. It was a lecturer in leadership, a professional in leadership, an expert. You've set me this question with this word limit, with this mark scheme, and I didn't ask it to write my answer. I put my answer in and I said give me a mark out of 10 and tell me how I could improve. And that's and, honestly, my mark on the course was, was extremely high because had I not had the polishing from the AI?
Speaker 1:I said, said, I was in a school of the day and I said to kids why don't you put the mark scheme in from your, from your exam boards when you've got no adult to hand and are you know? You teach us the fonts of knowledge. That's never going to change, but you need to be, you need to be able to navigate these things and, as you say, prompt engineering. I mean you guys sound extremely switched on, so your kids are very fortunate to be exposed to that kind of thinking, I think. So you know when you did.
Speaker 1:You know, getting back to the nuts and bolts of this when you implemented Bedrock and actually not just Bedrock, but when you know you clearly got a number of things going on. I spoke to you before we started recording and it's really clear to see with some schools where they say, yeah, we do this, this and this, and then, if this happens, we do this, this and this, and then, if this happens, we do this. You're so systematic about your approach to not just bedrock, but it's everything, so no wonder bedrock is where it is. So what issues do you face in implementing something like EdTech in your school and how have you overcome them? Because I think this is gold dust for schools to listen to.
Speaker 2:One of the things things, of course is equitable access to technology.
Speaker 2:So one of the things we did long before um, really long before this journey, but predominantly of the back of the pandemic, of course, and therefore in the pandemic, and we were all schools, were all rich in funding for this, that and what have you at that time, but it was then that we started to explore what edtech could look like, what it should look like.
Speaker 2:But at that point, but it was then that we started to explore what ed tech could look like, what it should look like, but at that point we also audited all of our students' digital access, because we know we've got bigger boxes in school, should we say, to create the equity digitally. So we have full access to IT in our library and our library, for an all boys secondary school, is incredibly busy. We also have a daily homework club fully sourced with computers and then we have various various lunch clubs where students can access tech. So we knew when students were in school they would be able to participate in ed tech programs. But we needed to be sure that that was also the case at home in ed tech programmes. But we needed to be sure that that was also the case at home. So that's the first thing that we needed to do to make sure that there was equity for students in this project, and programme.
Speaker 1:Can I just pick you up on your language here and before? You've used the word participate a couple of times now, and I just think it's so important that you are you're you're clearly a very inclusive thinking school in terms of you know you want parents to participate, you want children to be able to equally participate in everything, and that, if that includes building structures and frameworks in school for that to happen, that's clearly a big part of your thinking, isn't it?
Speaker 2:yeah, so we, we have been on definitely what school hasn't been on a journey from equality to equity? And that's the point, isn't it? It's all well and good having quality first teaching, brilliant enrichment programs, fantastic head tech Not if everybody can't access it. You'll just make the gap bigger. So, yeah, that's fundamentally at the heart of that.
Speaker 2:That's another massive area of my job and therefore, because that's an area of the job of the person who's also leading literacy and actually also leading our, our kind of scholars program as well, it means that the thinking's tied up and I think that's the heart of it, isn't it is, how is your leadership structured and your staffing and your resourcing structured to ensure that these um concepts, these fundamental concepts like being able to read, are handled in the right way?
Speaker 2:Um, because you've got to have a skilled workforce. You know, I am very, very fortunate that I have both a scholars program lead and a literature coordinator and a librarian who share my philosophies and therefore understand and work towards support programs for it to work for students and ultimately, where we have seen students struggle, even if they're not in the higher year groups, like Lauren said earlier, where we have this sort of regular intervention, we create support groups for them, and they're nice. Our teachers are kind to kids that are finding stuff hard. They're welcomed into their rooms, they're welcomed into our library or our homework club and we do it with them until that's no longer a barrier for them.
Speaker 1:That's just so. It's so. It's really impressive. I think often, a lot of these things, these desirables that schools and organizations will chase whether it's outcomes, profit, whether it's productivity, whatever all these desirables are often byproducts of something much more profound going on in the organization, and you've said that almost like you.
Speaker 1:Start with that philosophy. What is it we really want to achieve? I mean the old sign that simon sinek video that's probably done in excess of 10 million views on youtube start with why. Why is it that apple are so successful at selling products? It's because you know. You know that whatever they pick up you ever pick up from apple, it's going to be beautifully crafted, it's going to be a wonderful experience to be able to use it. But it all starts starts with why. That's where it all starts from. If people have a rationale and you can get on, you've got the underpinning philosophy. It's so important. I mean whenever I don't know if I should say this, but whenever we get together as a company, our CEO reminds us of what he calls our VTO, our vision. Basically, this is what we exist for. We exist to furnish schools and young people with the technology and the tools they need in order to access lifelong learning.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's our head teacher who would start teaching learning meetings and say literacy is everybody's job.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I think that is everybody's job. Equality and equity is everybody's job and he will lead with those values, with our staff.
Speaker 1:It's critical, so it's not just again that nebulous thing that floats in the air. That's an inconvenience to some people or like a bit of a nuisance for others. I think it's so important that you shift the narrative and the thinking around it. Lauren, did you have anything that you wanted around your around your experience of implementing?
Speaker 3:yeah, I was going to say. I think what natalie's been saying is actually how the literacy team came around, because there is that, that kind of idea that literacy lies within english, which is still something as great as, as great as our bedrock is it's still something that we're pushing against in our school, um, and and bedrock did start with english teachers in our school. It was set as english homework and then that we found actually that created a lot of barriers. Um, it put on english staff, um, to the point where they felt that they couldn't set homework outside of bedrock. They were inconsistencies, because obviously things happen, things happen and actually I didn't look at it this week because of this or whatever else.
Speaker 3:So that is how the literacy team was born, and the literacy team is made up of, obviously, natalie, myself, our librarian, alex Mack, arsene Coe, ali Matthews, and it's just, it works in such a brilliant way because, like Natalie said, we do share the same philosophies, but also we've centralised it, yeah, which means it's it's now our job to make sure they are doing what they are doing, which is actually and I'm sure you'd agree why our stats for completion is is our and participation are so high. It's compulsory homework for year seven and eight, and it's, it's communicated to them. This is not english, this is not something else. This is literacy.
Speaker 1:Literacy is its own subject and you are taking this across the board, so it would be in our reward structure as well our high work structure literacy I I've um actually got a diagram out when I when the pod is published, I'll publish it with with the um, with the pod on LinkedIn and various other socials. I I see it as kind of you've got your support mechanism, you've got your praise mechanism, but then you've got your pedagogy mechanism as well. So how is it making its way into the learning and the lived experience in the classroom? How are you supporting and reminding and doing those things as well? But then how are you praising? How are you celebrating? How are you supporting and reminding and doing those things as well? But then how are you praising? How are you celebrating? How are you celebrating the wins, because it might not always be the expected one?
Speaker 1:I've actually added a fourth cog, which sits just outside, which is for you guys. Really, which is impact? How are you understanding the impact in your setting? So, is that measuring in engagement against reading age progress, or standardization or progress? Are you looking at it in terms of, well, what's the written quality of their work like? How are you understanding this thing? That isn't just a bolt-on and this isn't just a bedrock. This is all ed tech. This is all anything that gets implemented. It's about grounding it in the everyday experience, I think.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think so we we actually. There's a couple of things there. So one of the things that lots of people are shocked about is that we don't pull students out of our curriculum for any intervention either. So we still have a full access to a broad and balanced curriculum, and the only time a child would be allowed to come out would be in a non-essential form period, where they would be doing something like private reading, and therefore a reading intervention in that time will clearly be not a detriment to the child, because we don't want children to miss out from what we know is happening in our classrooms to be absolutely great.
Speaker 2:And we know that because all of this stuff, all of the vocabulary curriculum, all of the tier two, all of our writing habits or our oracy habits, we embed them in what we call our learning walks. So we have specific areas that we're focusing on. We're a senior leadership team and often the expert in the field, and so our literacy coordinators are invited into our teachers' classrooms to see how that's going. Then we get to shape our next plan based on what we've seen in classrooms, which is why this year's focus has been on writing. You know, we're seeing this great vocabulary teaching. We're seeing this great vocabulary speaking, but is it translating pen to paper? And you know? That's really why you end up with the circular system here. I think isn't it. But, lauren, you should also touch on reward, because that's something you've been considering, isn't it we have?
Speaker 3:I mean, we reward them anyway. So it's 45 minutes a week for bedrock and we say please split it into three 15-minute sessions and we tell them the whys. And for those who go reach about an hour a week, they're given a house point. So actually, for those who go reach about an hour a week, they're given a house point. So actually we have really consistent um students. It's always, it's really interesting because they come up to you in the playground and go I did an hour this week, am I getting a house point? You go yeah, of course you've, you've gone above and beyond. That's brilliant, um.
Speaker 3:But we're also playing with the idea of um like a literacy tea, like a celebration that we would want to possibly run like twice a year to celebrate them. Um, and I think it's. It's about showing them that they're seen and showing them that their progress is seen in the way that we might have. We have awards, assemblies, um, we have commendation teas. So if we can do that with literacy and say you've done amazingly, we see you, then it really helps them. We open, like we said, with our, our reading webinar at the beginning of the year. We open with an intervention so they know that we're here for them and they recognize that and they meet us there and it's it's really rewarding to see them, as, like natalie said, you see in their work. But what's really rewarding is when they put their hand up in class and they use a word and they go. There's one, one boy, he the other day he put his hand up. I can't remember the word and it's frustrating me, but he looked at me, went bedrock and I was like brilliant.
Speaker 3:Yes, it is bedrock, and it's the confidence and then he gets a house point for for being able to link it. But that that t as well would be such a brilliant thing. And we do bedrock star of the month with the reports that we're sent. So when they say this student out of all of your students has progressed the most, then they get five house points and it's in a certificate that says bedrock star of the month. So that reward system really helps them and encourages them and it's working really well and it's and it's created a real positivity around literacy and their attitude towards their own literacy.
Speaker 1:I think you were right to touch on that and that's fascinating what you said. I love what you said about being seen and it reminds me I was very privileged to speak to Teresa Kremen, who's done a lot of work, very well-known figure nationally for Reading for Pleasure and the pedagogy around what that should look like. But you know, what she spoke a lot to me about was reader identity, and I've seen it in my own little boy, where he will pick up more challenging texts now and read them with me, even though he struggles with his reading because it's almost in spite of the fact it's difficult, because he loves reading the book that we're reading and he will then. He will then enter into the challenge of the word, enter into the challenge of it, with me supporting him because it's part of his identity. Oh, dad, can we read that tonight then, and I lay in bed. It's my favorite time of day because, you know, partly because I know that the kids are about to go to bed and I get to down there and sit and chill. But I love it because him and I are creating and constructing that together and I think what you're doing by everything you've just described.
Speaker 1:I just think it's so powerful because you are making sure that they are seen. You haven't got some kids plugging away week on week not being noticed. I often saw it when I remember I worked in a school and I came into a class that had had completely not in the school's, completely not in the school's um control long term supply and I then came in as the permanent teacher to come teach them and a lot of the kids were just all over the show. They just didn't have any sense of how to behave in an english class. It was tough, but there were some kids who sat there and were just beautiful and had obviously been. They would be beautiful if they had mr bean stood in front of them. You know like it was and I and I think souls like that should always be seen and I think whether they're often.
Speaker 3:They're often the students that are overlooked, obviously accidentally, because sometimes it's the loud one that you go. You've been really good today, here's a house point for being settled but the ones who are always good are overlooked, right, but we're, we're, we. We do work really hard to make sure that they are all seen and they all, they all feel valued. And I think what you touched on about the reading, the challenging books, it's a, it's one of the reasons that we don't buy into some of these reading schemes in our library, because we don't want to limit them. And we say to them if you feel you can read that, then absolutely do.
Speaker 3:And if and if you decide, actually this isn't the one for me, that's okay too. Like we're not one of those schools that say, um, you have to, you have to finish that book because you've started it now. If it doesn't work for you, that's, that's okay and let's find something that does. But if you still want that challenge, let's find something that has that too. And it's about giving them that space and Alex Mack is brilliant she's our librarian, she's brilliant at that because she'll say what are you into, where are we looking, what do we need? And she'll give them an array of things, as opposed to saying I think you need the early readers or something like that, and I think that feeds in again to their attitude towards literacy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think that it's about meeting the children where they are. Yeah, but then also, to a sense, that's why I I mean we're speaking the same language here, because that's why I, when I was leader of a school in English, I chose bedrock, because I wanted I thought I want my explicit tier two instruction to come from somewhere that my teachers can check in on. I know that they're reading widely a range of different fiction and nonfiction. I want them to choose whatever they want to read for that 20 minute slot elsewhere, and I want to empower teachers not to be checking anything and signing logs. I want them to be having conversations about what they want to read. Now.
Speaker 2:It's also about reading in an expectation. What they want to read now not. You know, it's not about reading in an expectation. So we don't. We don't reward reading because reading is something that that every wise part of that is at the heart of our culture. So to just read a book is standard here. Yeah, um, and we do face the the additional challenge of being an all-boys secondary school. I mean, we can all read and and and see the national statistics on that. Um, we knew that challenge was coming our way. We've been working on it for years and you know, I'm sat here looking at an mma book that's been ordered mixed martial arts. I didn't know what it was, but you know, in case anyone else doesn't it's been
Speaker 2:ordered for a student who we, we, we are struggling. We are definitely struggling, struggling to engage him in reading and therefore in the curriculum. And so what have we done? Well, we've explicitly tapped in to, like you say, meet them where they are. And my son, it sounds, is the same age as you and the concept of, oh, I'm finally a free reader break my heart. You know. I said to him you're a free reader, you've always been a free reader in this house. We'll through it together, and I understand different challenges, different schools, different systems, different processes.
Speaker 1:It is what it is, but it's actually dissuading children from exploring and engaging in literature, um, in in a manner that excites them, and that's what we want to promote and that kind of leads me to my, my, my final question, which I suppose I suppose you've marginally kind of answered previously but what would you say, since implementing Bedrock and having this surge of engagement and this real critical mass of pupils engaging with that personal literacy curriculum, what do you think you've seen? What's the biggest difference you feel like you've seen in your pupils?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, you're right, I was just looking here. We've probably talked. We talked a bit about quality assurance measures, teaching and learning time being dedicated. We've touched on those.
Speaker 2:But the bit for me that I think is really important is we have this concept of dirt time, which is probably familiar to lots of teachers dedicated improvement and reflection type, the increasing quality behind the student's ability to improve their work based on the feedback they've been given, closing the feedback loop, and that's a big, big part of our teaching here. That feedback is a loop, it's a circuit and if you don't do your bit after to the students, the rest of it hasn't made any sense. The work wasn't really valued in the first place and therefore being able to see them enhance that, um, you know, take to go up to advance or ascend even I'm a religious studies teacher. When you see that happen and a student said to me the other day, that's concurring, isn't it? I've concurred and I said, yeah, exactly, you concur. Brilliant, that's exactly what we're talking about and we do have, you know, we do have some very high attainers in our school and that's a challenge for us. We need to make it in the ability to stretch as well, definitely.
Speaker 3:It's just. I think a really big one for me is the confidence in themselves, their verbal contributions in class especially. We did an assembly on code switching and we said right, Goodness, that's like a concept, it's amazing, that's all right.
Speaker 2:right, we'll go early start.
Speaker 3:Yeah, start from the beginning.
Speaker 3:It's great, but we did the big thing on code switching and how.
Speaker 3:Um, you know you can talk in a certain way with your friends, but when you're here, it's this language and whatever else, and actually bedrock's giving them the tool to use that language and it's what we've said.
Speaker 3:It's when they're in class and they go I know that word I'm like I know you do, why, how, tell me. And then they're excited to tell you and even the kind of, as you said, you've got the quiet ones in class who are now going, even if they're just nodding, going, I know that and I go, okay. And then it's the conversation with their friends, even if they're not there yet but they will be, and then it's the, the high ability boy is it kind of going? Actually I knew this word but now I can build on it and get really specific with this word and it is that kind of that stretch, but also again, with what's great is it's it goes across that kind of spectrum of building the foundation and then allowing them to move forward and beyond that, and it really caters to all of them and it's visible in their behaviour and their confidence and, obviously, their work.
Speaker 2:And it would be unfair for us to entirely take the credit for the coaching. We did invite Matt Pinkett in last year and he was fantastic.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow, oh, the boys book.
Speaker 2:And it links back to where you started actually, because we see emotional literacy as part of this journey as well, and we specifically see that because we know that we are not a microcosm of society, being a single-sex educational school, and therefore we we totally value the concept of emotional literacy inside of this and that that's another area of my work. Equality and inclusion and equity, and therefore working with somebody like matt and and upskilling our teachers and our students on that was was a really vital component to building the confidence in speak, you know, for children to feel confident to speak in those environments and to understand the importance of code switching um, it is really important for us I.
Speaker 1:I couldn't agree more and I'll have to end with an anecdote with my son who, as I say, he, uh, he does struggle with his reading, his writing. Be so funny because the other day I put a timer on his ipad and he woke up and I could hear him rustling about in his room and he was like pressing his iPad. Like you could see it wasn't working because I put the time limit on. It was six o'clock in the morning.
Speaker 1:I was like no, you know, go back to sleep, not to you, danny yeah, all of a sudden I heard this bang, this is imprisonment, and I was like wow, and and it? I just felt so, so proud that I thought, god, you know that's, you know he was it was about, it was only a. It wasn't too long ago and I just thought that's just. You know, you might not be able to write it, you might be able to read it, but you can say it and then, once, when, when you come across it, you're going to be in a much better position to be able to absorb it and then take it from your, from your, into your expressive vocabulary and your literacy.
Speaker 1:And I just think you know, of all the pods I've ever done, this is to hear living and breathing examples of bedrock. Being a part of something so incredible is well, what a way to end my week. So, thank you so much for coming on, both of you. It's been, it's been a genuine, genuine privilege. Thank you so much. And if you would ever like me to come in to speak to your pupils about the power of bedrock and about literacy in general, and particularly emotional literacy, I, I, that's my, that's my bag, that's what I love it's good to know you've signed up for that.
Speaker 2:Now you know that's a verbal contract it's going out there you know it'll be imprisonment 100.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, I'll tell my son. I promise you I'm there, that that would be just a privilege. So, yeah, um, this is fantastic and thank you everyone for continuing to listen. It's been, um, it's been great over the last few weeks and months. You know lots of people emailing me and asking me for guests and things. So, yeah, it's, it's a privilege to do this. So please continue to subscribe to the pod, because it's that's how we're growing and that's how we're able to keep doing it. So, um, thank you, natalie, thank you, lauren, for coming on.
Speaker 2:Thank you very much. Take care bye.
