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Bedrock Talks from Bedrock Learning
Welcome to Bedrock Talks, a podcast from the team at Bedrock Learning that delves deep into the heart of literacy in education. Hosted by the insightful and experienced educator Andy Sammons, this podcast stands as a beacon for anyone passionate about enhancing literacy skills and understanding its pivotal role in education.
Each episode is a journey into the world of literacy education. Andy brings together a diverse array of voices from across the education sector, from seasoned teachers to renowned academics, policy makers to literacy advocates. All of our guests share a common goal: to explore and expand the horizons of literacy education.
We go beyond surface-level conversations. Our discussions are in-depth, nuanced, and filled with insights that only years of experience and expertise can bring. We tackle a wide range of topics, from innovative teaching methods to the latest research in literacy, the impact of technology on reading and writing, to strategies for engaging diverse learners. Our aim is to provide a platform where the complexities of literacy are unpacked and understood in a way that is both accessible and enlightening.
Join Andy and his guests as they illuminate the multifaceted world of literacy. Subscribe to Bedrock Talks and be part of a community that believes in the transformative power of literacy. Together, let's shape a more literate, informed, and connected world.
Bedrock Talks from Bedrock Learning
Implementing a disciplinary literacy strategy with Sophie Prescott
With 20 years of teaching experience, Sophie Prescott has held various leadership roles across schools in the Midlands. From a background as a science teacher, her current responsibilities now include overseeing Reading and Literacy, supporting disadvantaged students, and contributing to SCITT development. She is passionate about each of these areas, and as a non-English specialist, she is uniquely positioned to advance literacy initiatives and positively impact the life chances of all pupils in her setting.
Discover innovative approaches to literacy enhancement with a focus on empowering disadvantaged pupils. Sophie shares her experience of implementing Bedrock at Key Stage 3, where she successfully weaves vocabulary and grammar components into the curriculum. You'll learn about her structured literacy lessons that not only improve reading and oracy skills but also promote self-guided learning beyond the classroom. As a science specialist, Sophie provides a unique perspective on making academic vocabulary accessible and relevant across different subjects, benefiting both students and staff with a comprehensive language learning strategy.
Unravel the secret to nurturing disciplinary literacy as we discuss how schools can collaboratively define and build literacy skills vital for subjects like science, history, and geography. The episode highlights the strategic rollout of Bedrock, emphasising engaging middle leaders, students, and parents to create a thriving literacy environment. We explore the pivotal role of technology, such as MAPPA, in supporting the mission to enhance literacy skills. With future plans to foster excitement through rewards and collaborative initiatives, this conversation is a treasure trove of insights for educators seeking to elevate their literacy programs and engage their communities.
hi everyone. Thank you for continuing to listen to bedrock talks, our podcast here, hosted by myself, andy sammons. I lead teaching and learning for bedrock. Uh, I can't believe I get to do this for for continuing to listen to Bedrock Talks, our podcast here, hosted by myself, andy Sammons, I lead teaching and learning for Bedrock. I can't believe I get to do this for a living. It's amazing.
Speaker 1:And today we've got actually a Bedrock colleague who is implementing Bedrock in her school and it's been such a pleasure to work with her in her sort of early development and implementation of Bedrock and the way in which the school is going about it. So I've asked her on. It's Sophie Prescott, who's an associate assistant principal for literacy and disadvantaged pupils across the setting and I think it's just such a really powerful interview to be able to have someone on who really knows their stuff in terms of pedagogy, in terms of curriculum, but has then been really truly getting under the skin of what her learner needs in her setting in a middle and senior school to really use Bedrock to kind of supercharge what they're trying to achieve there. And it's had a great start. We've had some fantastic feedback and I just thought it would be brilliant to to get Sophie on.
Speaker 1:So, sophie, thank you for joining us on a Friday afternoon. Uh, just before I'm told a duty, so we're you know she's, she's taken on for the team here and and given up some last free time on a Friday. So thank you coming for coming on, sophie that's great.
Speaker 2:Thank you, andy, for having me and looking forward to to our future partnership together with Bedrock yeah, I think, I mean, I mean I was really often.
Speaker 1:It's a pleasure of mine to really speak with new schools and begin the journey with them all the time. But I remember specifically speaking with you and thinking well, there's a real structure to what you're trying to achieve and how you're going about your sometimes with implementation. I do quite a lot of steering because that's what schools want me to do but, yeah, we felt like that with you.
Speaker 1:I felt like you've got a very clear sense of what you're trying to do. So, um, it will be interesting for for listeners to kind of hear how you've gone about gone about this implementation. So could you give us a sense just very briefly about kind of your current role in the school and and how that links with bedrock?
Speaker 2:yeah, so. So basically, um, a lead literacy here and um, you know, we were looking to ensure that we'd got a, a sort of really good offer for the students. Um, we've got quite a high proportion of da um, and so we were coming in with with students that were under, you know, under age-related expectation really with their reading, and we were looking to put in lots of interventions and support. But we wanted to widen that package as well. So we have a really great opportunity, to be honest, which is to have lessons once a fortnight that are taken out of the English time at key stage three. So these lessons are in year seven, eight and nine and we have a dedicated what we call our well lesson. So reading, oracy and literacy, um, and in those lessons we build all those skills and we continue to build all those skills.
Speaker 2:And what I wanted to do was to extend that and to be able to give students access to continue to do that learning, you know, in a self-guided fashion as well, outside of the classroom, and that's where we came across.
Speaker 2:You guys, you know, through talking with colleagues, had some really good feedback about the system. So we started to implement the system. But what really, really interested me was the sort of the MAPA element of what you guys offer. So we've launched at the moment the vocab and grammar. That's going really really well. We're working really really closely with the English department and they wanted to look at the holistic assessments and they are now using that with their teachers within their lessons to sort of forward plan with what they're doing and know which students they're targeting. So that's been, that's been really powerful. The other thing I'm doing is using the sort of the overview of the words that students are working on in different year groups and different areas to be able to share that through weekly literacy briefings with staff so they're aware on the key words that they need to be working on, that the students didn't understand and that they need to be using within their lessons.
Speaker 1:Can I ask you a question on that? Because one thing that we often find with Bedrock is that it's really happening increasingly. Now we want to flip it away from being something which is simply done in isolation, whether that be for a homework or whether that be in a literacy lesson. How key do you think it is that you take those words and you take those insights and that you share them? Is that more powerful than kind of just picking tier two words because they sound academic? Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2:no, absolutely, I think. I think. I think it helps on two levels. I think it helps with the, with the staff understanding the integration of the importance of using those words within the, within their lessons. It actually is evidence that the, the staff need to see to be able to see that they can use the, those words. And we've identified them and then I will start to build those in throughout activities, throughout those lessons that week.
Speaker 2:I think it's really really important. But it also highlights to the students that we're trying to support them because they can see the words they're working on. They can then see that they're working on it in their lessons as well. So I think that sort of link is really important. Now, in my context I mean, I'm not an English specialist leading literacy, I'm a scientist. So from a scientist's point of view, actually getting that little bit of feedback of actually the kids don't get the word theory, for example, we can then use that in science quite easily and drop that into lessons and making that whole link and that sort of closing that circle, if you like, is really really important. And I think that's where the disciplinary literacy comes in as well.
Speaker 1:Well, that's interesting because I was chatting to my colleague, olivia, who's the director of education here, and she mentioned the other day about, for example, in terms of comprehension, if a pupil in MAPA is exposed to a word before the lesson and they knew it already, and they have it recapped in a month's time and they knew it already, that's not a waste of time because being simply exposed to it lessens that cognitive strain in the lesson.
Speaker 1:So if you already knew what the word theory went before the lesson and you've had it checked when it comes up in the lesson, you're going to have access to it in your working memory much quicker than you would have done otherwise. So I think that's a really important you know observation from from Olivia and that sort of brings me on to my next question here, when you talk about disciplinary literacy and I think one of the strengths from your position is that you're not an English teacher. Yeah, absolutely so. Speaking as a teacher and as a scientist, it's a this. But what does disciplinary literacy mean to you as a teacher and as a scientist?
Speaker 2:So really, the way that I mean I've done a lot of work with you know, within my school and within my setting, on disciplinary literacy and you know the way I sort of think of it is it's what are those key elements? What are those key things from a literacy point of view that I need a student to be able to do in my subject? So what do I need them to be able to say or understand or write about in science or history or geography? And actually we, we did a really interesting piece of work where, as faculties and subject areas, we sat down and we had a conversation um around what do we want a student to be able to do in year seven, in history, for example? What do that? What are those skills that we want them to have? And then we'd work up to year eight. So how are those? How are those disciplinary literacy skills different in years eight year, year seven? How are we building on those skills? And we did that all the way right up to sixth form. And looking at it in the sixth form, you know, are we actually building in opportunities for them to be able to write a synoptic essay, for example, at A-level when you know? Are we building in those skills that they need from a disciplinary literacy point of view in the exams? You know, are we starting that and, like you know, are we building in those skills that they need from a disciplinary literacy point of view in the exams? You know, are we starting that. And, like you said earlier about that cognitive load, the more we can feed that in and the more we can teach them to do that, the better.
Speaker 2:Now, that was a very powerful piece of work in itself for departments to sit down and think about and really drill down into. Departments to sit down and think about and really drill down into. But then what I got departments to do in a CPD session was to sit mixed departments in tables and what we then did is we then looked at what we got common skills that we needed across many subjects. So you know, we had English, we had maths, we had science, geography, history, all sitting together feeding into. What do we need those students to be able to do from a disciplinary literacy point of view? You know, what are we asking them to access? What are the kinds of questions they're getting that we need them to be able to know those key terms. And then I use that to put together a disciplinary literacy curriculum for our school, so working from year seven right up to year 13.
Speaker 2:Um, you know, what are we? What are we doing? What are those netherstone skills that we want kids to have, we want us learners to have in year seven, and how does that progress now? Then that then sort of sits as a, as an overriding framework, but then each subject individually has got their own context of that and what they want disciplinary literacy to look like. Now, what that enables me to do is our briefings that we have. I send out a weekly briefing to staff. I can look at those skills that are common to everybody and we can be continuing to work on those skills. And that's where those words come in as well. So the analysis that Bedrock enables me to show is to say we said that this is what we needed students to be able to do. These are the words currently that they're struggling with, and we can build those in. So it really is a very powerful sort of cycle, if you you like, of the things that we're asking those students to do. So it's quite, it's quite um, it's quite straight.
Speaker 1:It's got a great strength in it I spoke to nathan burns, the mr metacognition, uh, for the pod a few days ago and some.
Speaker 1:A theme that came out in our discussion was that it's not, ironically, it's not just about the pupils, it's about the teachers thinking around the curriculum and I think the big shift that happened for me in my teaching and when my outcomes I know it's not all about outcomes, but when my outcomes got considerably better as a teacher, you know, way above national average and way up into the progress, things like that was when I started to think more critically about my subject and about, um, what, what are the skills that a person, a young person, needs to be successful in my subject?
Speaker 1:That isn't just um, you know teaching them. Um, for example, you know the plain, bare facts, but what are, what are the ways of being, the ways of thinking that underpin the way that a successful English linguist, literary expert right, I mean Jenny Webb popularized the term writing like a literary critic and I just that really flipped my thinking when it came to that, and I think it's the same for you, isn't it? You know writing like a scientist? Yeah, so you know, I think what MAPPA does as you, isn't it?
Speaker 1:you know, writing like a scientist, yeah, so you know, I think what MAPPA does, as you say, offers you a not just as a scientist but as a whole school lead for this, a scalable way of just having your finger on the pulse. Is it an off-the-shelf solution that you know puts the kids to bed and does the dinner? No, but it is that. It is that scalability, isn't it? So could you just talk us through, or at least, in your sense of, give us a sense of how has that scalability, even in the early days, helped you so far? Have you got any a line of sight on that for us?
Speaker 2:yeah, I mean so, so I'm quite lucky in some respects. So the initial launch um, I've got quite a small team that I work with so that has enabled me to launch it, but in a very, very controlled fashion and to make sure that we've got that launch right. We've got the launch right with the students. We've got the launch right with the members of staff who are using it early on. What we then, what I've then started to do, is to raise awareness, wider awareness, of what bedrock is doing with the staff. Um, so just sharing some of those little videos that you've got that that help them to understand that what actually bedrock is, so they're not just hearing the word or the students talking about it in terms of their homework or whatever, and then and then getting the middle leaders on board. So now we're getting to that phase where we're going to start to get the middle leaders on board and then build in that idea of how can Bedrock now support us in terms of disciplinary literacy.
Speaker 2:We've already done so much work on that but, like you say, cognitive load on staff is massive. Anything that we can do to help us sort of think oh, actually, yeah, let's let's focus on that word a little bit more. Hence the, the use within the briefings. But also now looking at it from a subject point of view, how can mapper be used there? So can it be used in your lesson just to go over some quick definitions and some quick keywords that we might be using in that topic?
Speaker 2:You know how that can then brought, you know, be broadened out to those wider subject areas, um. So I think really probably for the next half term, we'll start looking at how we can build that we've got the students concrete, using the, the vocab and grammar. You know the english department are already involved in looking at the, the holistic assessments, and then building that next half term into, into bringing in that mapper work and the and the, the sort of disciplinary side of things in key subject areas to start with. So we're really going to look at those subject areas that will benefit most from um, from having some additional support in um in the form of mapper through this platform, um, that will allow us to do that what we've.
Speaker 1:We've done some really interesting work with with colleagues where they've had some of the most vulnerable pupils withdrawn from lessons you know, for example, some of their, you know bucket three subjects, things like that and where we've created very bespoke groups on the MIS and then, you know, and then been able to pull them into MAPA.
Speaker 1:And then we've had people like yourselves, leaders from different faculties, who have then sequenced the most powerful content for those most vulnerable learners to access the curriculum. So they're, you know they might be withdrawn from a particular set of subjects, but actually what's happened is is that they're able to spend time on on, for example, insight for science, words like method, words like evaluation in english, words you know such as like protagonist theme, some of those really deep underlying concepts that actually those, what I call those wrecking ball size concepts that are going to help them access the curriculum. And that's what I think, and also for someone like you, in a very, very simple way, you can see for every subject what's been taught, what's been sequenced, you know what's the agenda like in each of the subjects across the school, and I just think that's really, really powerful. And in terms of you know your vision then for bedrock and where you, you know, where do you see this in? Well, let's, let's be tricky. Where do you see this in six months time? And then, where do you see this in maybe a year's time?
Speaker 2:so.
Speaker 2:So you know, initially I think, um, you know, as I say, we're quite, quite the early phase at the moment of our launch and it's gone very well, um, you know, so it, we're at the moment just embedding that with students and getting them used to the idea of what that is and what's expected. So I think, within in six months time I'd love to be, you know, those kids are really sort of engaging in it. Um, you know, we've got that buzz around it. We've got lots of rewards to do with it as well. So, um, we're building that into our rewards culture. We're getting prizes out for points earners and things like that, and we've got a strong college system here. So we are linking that use of Bedrock there, so building a bit of a buzz around it and getting students using it. But then I think I want to start to see it being used a little bit more in the subject. So once we start to launch it, so in six months time, we will have had those conversations with our specific leaders of different subject areas and they will be taking on a bit of responsibility of that being used within their individual areas.
Speaker 2:I also want to start getting the parents on board. So we've initially launched just to the students, just to get the platform working from our point of view, making sure we know how it works, you know, and ironing out any of those sort of early teething issues. And then I want to start getting the parents involved, you know, getting them logged in so that they can have that conversation with their students as well, because I think that's very important, because I think that's very important Within that, as part of my role, I run sort of coffee mornings every half term, so I invite parents in and as part of that, I think there'll be a really strong link there between me inviting those parents in sitting down having a chat about their child's literacy, their reading, what they can be doing to help, but also helping them to understand how to access bedrock and again, with my other da hat on, that's really important because often those are the hardest parents to reach and to get that support for those students, um, so it's sort of again, sort of making sure that they're getting that, that external support as well. Um, as in terms for a year, um, I'd really like to be starting to be able to track that progress that students are making throughout Bedrock, and I know that we can do that, you know, sort of week by week, but actually you know longer periods of time showing greater sort of progress being made, I think is really important.
Speaker 2:You know's, it's something that we want to see, that impact towards the end of the year. I want to be able to see that measurable impact in terms of their outcomes and, like you said earlier, it's not all about outcomes, is it? But you know, we know that those are the measures that we're going to be, you know, reality held to. So, looking at those, those outcomes at the end of the year from assessment weeks and things like that, we're also going to start to look at taking in some of those scripts from the students. So, where we've identified those students who are struggling a little bit maybe, or particular words that they're struggling with, we're going to be taking those scripts back in and actually analysing the impact that those that what we're doing is having on those students with that vocab.
Speaker 1:I'd love to see that analysis you know.
Speaker 2:So just, I really want to see it in in the work that those students are doing, um, so yeah, so come a year's time, that's that's where I want to be. I want to be able to take in those papers from those students that we know that we've had to do some, some work with, see that evidence of improvement from the first assessment window to the final assessment window of the year, and to really then be able to track it in that sense as well as just in the background and in the numbers. I mean, one thing that I think I've been really impressed with so far with Bedrock is just how easy it is to get that data and to see the engagement and to see what students are doing. And I know I probably only just scratched the surface in the first few weeks of looking at it, but it's really impressive, and I know that the other staff that have looked at it have been really impressed with it as well, so that's a real positive for me.
Speaker 1:I think what we've done, we've had some really interesting conversations with schools around data triangulation. So there's a school, um in in surrey actually, who where we've triangulated their gcse outcomes. So we've looked at the gap between well, we've done it a number of different ways, different schools with one way we did it was was progress. We triangulated consistency of engagement with MAPA against the jump between mock exam and eventual outcome and we've also tracked consistency of engagement with MAPA as well as relationship between target grade and actual outcome. Yeah, and you can really clearly see I know that mapper isn't doing everything right, but we know that the teacher is the key driver here. Yeah, but if mapper is helping the teacher and mapper is helping the student in some, some way, we see a differential of around about 1.3. Wow, people that engage with it most and least. Now we know there's going to be a correlation between most and least and a lot of other factors's going to be a correlation between most and least and a lot of other factors that you and I both know about. But what's really impressive to me is that there's clearly a correlation and I think, if nothing else, it's giving those pupils that want to engage more something to bite against. And of course we know with MAPPA that let's say you sequence and we often say this to staff don't fall into the trap of sequencing 50 words in two weeks.
Speaker 1:What you said earlier was so, so, so important, I think, which is pick the 10, 15 most crucial words that you know. You want to get served up time and time again and then, if they know it, it's in their knowledge organizer, in their long-term memory. If they don't know it, it will reteach them and reteach them until such time as they do know the answers and they do understand what the concept means. And I think that you've got the classroom hub. You could put 4 000 science words in the classroom hub and you've got them all on the board. That's lovely for teachers, great.
Speaker 1:But I think what's really powerful is what you said before is about making space for colleagues to be able to have those conversations around the topic. So what are the 10, 15, sort of, as I say, wrecking ball-sized concepts that we need to know that with some degree of confidence, that is in their long-term memory. And I think for me and this is what struck me about particularly you and early doors, sophie was that I think you really see it for what it is. You understand the simplicity of the platform is giving you that level of scalability and visibility into the literacy agenda across different subjects. Absolutely, um, and I and I really can't wait to see how that progresses.
Speaker 1:And obviously it goes without saying if you need us to do any triangulation, if you need to come meet me to work with your colleagues or anything like that, that's what we live for in my TLC team. That's literally why we exist. So, you know, thank you for coming on and thank you for having me, thank you for those insights. It's, it's really powerful and, you know, I hope it continues to to deliver for you, as it has done in these first few weeks, but oh, I'm sure it will. Um, I know that colleagues will be really chuffed to listen to what you're saying, as someone who's like living, breathing, on the front line, talking about these things, working with people. So, thank you so much for coming on, sophie. It's been a dream and enjoy your weekend now.
Speaker 2:Thank you, yes, thank you very much.
Speaker 1:Thanks everyone for listening. Can you please ensure that you like and subscribe, and email feedback is always welcome and please make sure, as I say, you share the pod. You, you know you, you share it with colleagues and we always try and make it as, as relevant as and as useful for colleagues as possible. So, um, yeah, please remember to keep engaging with us. We love it and, uh, until next time. Bye.
