Bedrock Talks from Bedrock Learning

24. Innovation in Further Education with Holly Barnes-Lomax

• Bedrock Learning • Season 2 • Episode 18

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Discover the hidden gems of Further Education (FE) as Holly Barnes-Lomax joins Bedrock Talks. 

Holly is the Teaching, Learning and Quality Lead at an FE college in Chesterfield.
She takes us behind the scenes to explore the variety of courses, from vocational training to adult education, and the specialised support provided to SEND students. 

With her extensive experience, Holly sheds light on her role, detailing her hands-on approach to coaching teachers, planning curriculums and ensuring quality education through innovative methods like incremental coaching.

Speaker 1:

Hi everyone, welcome to another episode of Bedrock Talks with Bedrock Learning. I'm Andy Sammons, the Head of Teaching and Learning. I'm loving the summer holidays at the minute because I feel like I can record more of these and it's just I can't even believe that this is my job to speak to all these interesting people. It's amazing, and today we've got another one. Linkedin is great to be able to really kind of connect with really interesting people. So we've got another really interesting guest today.

Speaker 1:

We've got Holly Barnes-Lomax, who is the teaching, learning and quality lead at a college in Chesterfield it's an FE college, and it's interesting for me, this one, because my sister-in-law, funnily enough, works in further education and it's really clear just speaking to her, just reading between the lines, that there is a very distinct discourse, community of practice, a very distinct place of work to go as a teacher and I, to my shame, don't really know much about it and sort of you know listening to her, my sister-in-law, about holidays and differences and saying to her are you sure you're a teacher?

Speaker 1:

Because I'm just. You know the way that it sounds in FE and it's just so interesting to be able to speak to someone who's obviously senior in a college. So we've got Holly on today. So thank you so much for coming on, Holly, it's massively appreciated. Could we just start just by giving us a sense of kind of what you do in your college, but then also give us a sense of the difference between, for teachers, for example, that you know what's it, what's the difference between a secondary school, uh, and a college?

Speaker 2:

yeah, of course. So thank you so much for having me on and thanks for really embracing further education. I think it's so valuable to have these spaces to be able to give further education educators a voice. So my role is a bit like an advanced practitioner within the college. So I support a lot of teachers in terms of coaching and mentoring and we work on the kind of the quality side as well. So we support teachers with their curriculum planning and so maybe in a secondary school that might be a senior teacher who kind of holds that role.

Speaker 2:

And I work in a college where we don't have observations as part of the standard performance management process. So we're really lucky. We do do learning walks and learning helps, where we kind of do droppings. So we're quite unique and a lot of colleges are moving towards that model of dropping observations as well. So we're a big part of, you know, doing that kind of incremental coaching and incremental support day to day.

Speaker 2:

So, although my background itself is within English, so I started in English as a foreign language sector and I moved into further education into a college in Cambridgeshire, a college in cambridgeshire, and I work with, with all teachers, so whether they're in health and social, whether they're a bricklayer, whether they're a huge experienced teacher or um huge experienced bricklayer. You know we get to work with with lots of different people within my job role and and it's amazing, to be honest it's the best job role in the college. I would say yeah, um. So just to kind of give a, I suppose, a bit of a brief of what further education looks like it's huge, you know it's so undervalued and underfunded, you know, for people who don't really know, but we are post-16 education. That's kind of our remit.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's what I was going to ask. So again, listeners, this is completely my ignorance and I apologise for this. I do apologise for this, this, but when would someone come into your college? Typically, you know, why do they come to your college? Because we know that kids go to secondary school, because they have to by law, you know, like, you know kind of, and that they, you know, I think it's up to 18 now, isn't it by law? But so how, when and how would they access your college? You say 16 to 18? What's that? What happens?

Speaker 2:

that's that transition from secondary through to further education. We support apprenticeships, we support those who are maybe looking to go on to vocational courses, technical courses, um, but also what people don't know about further education is that we we host uh training for adults, so anybody above the age of 18, so up to you know like we've got a gentleman at the minute who's resitting his maths qualification to support his granddaughter and he's like 80, 83 I think, yeah it's crazy, um, but what we also have is we have send provisions and we also have um proof.

Speaker 2:

So we have people referral units. So we also have kind of that 14 to 16 and that's maybe not nationally but most colleges will support those notions. And again the same with the SEND departments. So a typical student would come to us if they're not going to sixth form and they're looking to go towards a course, they would come to us and come to college and, depending on how they graded it within the secondary school, gcses, they then progress towards a particular level.

Speaker 2:

So some courses they have to sit a level one qualification. So, for example, if they're going into hairdressing or maybe a trade like construction and they have to know the kind of foundation levels and then they have to build up and they can kind of progress. So, for example, plumbing, they have to do level one into level two and they have to go into level three. If they want to look at gas safety, if they were maybe interested in going into maybe the creative media kind of subject, creative arts, they can go into a level three qualification immediately, depending on the qualifications they've got. So it all depends on kind of what their their kind of vision looks like. And then we've got the aspects as well of students who have EHCPs. So education, healthcare plans. They get education paid up until the age of 25. So they can actually go, yeah.

Speaker 2:

So we have a nice kind of transition period where if maybe they've come from the SEND department and they've got maybe their introduction into creative industries or independence, they can then transition through to college. Or, you know, if they've decided that they want to do level one media, but actually that's not what they're interested in, they wanted to do level one sport, they could do that in the following year. So they can kind of build some of their qualifications courses like bits and pieces around. You know some of the restrictions of what they can do, um, but yeah, so they can get education paid up until the age of of um 25. But our students have to be with us, um, it says it says till they're 18, but actually it's really till they're 19. So it's when they fall 19 within an academic year and it falls around like mid-august. So if they're 19 before the start of the academic year, um, they can kind of opt out. But ultimately there's there's a really like kind of tight look date on that um. So we they tend to stay with us for around three years. A lot of typical students, um. Alongside that, then you've obviously got your apprenticeship. So, um, people might come to us for day release. They might come to us because predominantly their apprenticeships delivered at our centre. So I work at a college where we actually have an apprenticeship site, learning limited um, and we have a lot of our apprentices go there and that runs 360, you know, four days a year, um, probably 363, but you know we close, we don't really close down because our apprenticeships could be 16 but our apprentices could also be 44. So you know, employers tend to send people on apprenticeships if there's a new job role, it could be management, it could be a level seven qualification. So ultimately, fe is a very buzzing kind of hive where we're continuing to, to learn all year round.

Speaker 2:

So where we go back to kind of your question originally, I suppose around holidays, and I think on average secondary schools get is it about 13 weeks? Um, yeah, something around that, whereas we tend to get between six and eight weeks depending on the college that you work at. But you can only really take those holidays within when the half terms fall. So, for example, we might break up slightly earlier on our academic calendar, but there may be things running through the summer like functional skills resits for adult classes. We have roll-on, roll-off courses, so ultimately we need to be in for some of those, those courses. It might be apprenticeships coming in where we need to support them with maths and english or their main course.

Speaker 2:

So, um, we're kind of in a in a nice flexibility with how we take them. We get like, maybe a couple of weeks earlier compared to the secondary, but ultimately those eight weeks have to last us throughout the year. And you know, I think a lot, of, a lot of educators would say we're very lucky because actually we get more than the average job. But ultimately, you know, we're still not there with secondary, so we're still in that undervalued part where we don't get the same benefits, we don't get the same pay. You know we're just talking about the pay rise. Fe's not included in that pay rise.

Speaker 1:

So yeah, and and, and it strikes again. Anyone who listens to this regularly will know that my little boy, um, has been diagnosed with dyslexia. We're actually we're looking at potentially other avenues of support um to help him make sure that he keeps his chronological age in terms of expectations. But it's lovely, I don't think goodness me, he's eight, for, for pete's sake, but you know it. It comforts me to know that, whatever trajectory he chooses, if it's not that kind of you know, sixth form, then on to university, these centres, and I must say, since my time as a teaching person, these colleges, the amount and I'm not just saying this it's incredible.

Speaker 1:

I bump into pupils that I taught years ago and they shake my hand in the street and they say you're right, sir. And I, pupils that I taught years ago, and they shake my hand in the street and they say you're right, sir, and I say what you up to now and a lot of them say well, I went to college and then, and they're now doing you know, really fantastic things and you know you talk about, we talk about these technical things and I think it's there's a wider social issue here about the undervaluing of a lot of these technical, because this is what we found out in the in the pandemic right. Everyone forgets that, about the fact that now all we need us, we need that. We need people to go to stack the shelves and tesco's, we need the bus drivers, we need the technical, we need all these different we need so you know these things that that underpin society working, and obviously you know you. You do a load of other academic stuff as well at your college, don't you?

Speaker 1:

so yeah, yeah, so we still have a levels at our provision, so we still have that sixth form element it's just this lovely kind of I don't know this kind of lovely mosaic of so much it sounds like there's so much different, so much different stuff going on and so many different choices for young people to make as they, as they're entering that really important part of their life. So it it baffles me why that wouldn't be really valued it. It really baffles me because as a parent, but also as an educator, I want those places to be the kind of the, the center point of our educational system. That's what education is for not to you know, not to prepare a workforce for tomorrow, necessarily, but to give people the power over their lives, about what they do, and it sounds really dynamic, am I?

Speaker 1:

it sounds like a very dynamic yeah, yeah, fe is.

Speaker 2:

You know there's a place for everybody in further education, no matter whether it's your first chance, your second chance, your last chance, a new opportunity. You know we're there for everybody in colleges. You know our purpose is that we are the community. Colleges are parts of the community that we, that we are, we live in. You know some of us have more colleges, some of us have new colleges, but ultimately we're there to serve the community. We're there to build, as you say, like the next workforce, and that workforce is so dynamic and so diverse and so inclusive. So you know a a lot of FE educators will know that we're known as kind of the Cinderella sector, with that metaphor of being undervalued, misunderstood, underfunded, and that highlights that importance for that kind of greater investment that we're all kind of wanting and striving for. And you know I'm relatively new, maybe compared to a lot of other educators within the sector. You know I speak with educators and leaders who are, you know, real kind of focal points of further education. They've been working there for 20 odd years, maybe even 30 odd years, and actually, you know the message has always been the same that it doesn't hold the same position and prestige that others do. So we have this, you know, know notion of the importance of primary and secondary, and then we think about further education for a lot of people is kind of sixth form and then we kind of jump over and there still is that stigma. You know less so now, but we I saw it the other day just on Twitter someone said, you know, they said to my daughter do well in your GCSEs, otherwise you'll end up at college. That's, that's not what it's about. You know, people want to come to college. We are oversubscribed in some courses, you know, and and what we're forgetting is that the, the educators that we have, are experienced in their own fields. You know, we've got engineers who you know might not have um worked within this country for the last kind of 20 years and actually they've been working out. You know, maybe in have um worked within this country for the last kind of 20 years and actually they've been working out, you know, maybe in oil rigs, or maybe they've been out in in japan and they've come back and they're bringing all that knowledge and they want to come and teach the next kind of future engineers and we're asking them to come in and cut their huge salaries of all their experience down to something like 2222,000 for an unqualified teacher, and you know we'll put you in support. You teach training and that's great. You know we see the highlight of that.

Speaker 2:

But ultimately, you know, how do people survive on certain salaries and for some some people might be listening to this thinking £22,000 is a lot of money and it is, and don't get me wrong, that is for working class families. But ultimately, you know we're thinking about people who have really made their careers here in whatever it is to give new generations opportunities. So we've got kind of both ends of the spectrum and you know we can't be shy to the fact that a lot of people within various communities, their carers, whether that's for parents, whether that's for grandma, whether that's for's for siblings, you know they're taking them to school. What we do amongst all that is we provide a hell of a lot of pastoral care. You know mental health is is on the rise and we you know we we hear it all the time that we need to be looking out for things, but ultimately, you know it really is, and we see that with a lot of adults that come in as well, who have maybe been sent to college because their work said you know you need to go and get your English qualification. We want you to upskill. So part of what we also offer that if people don't know that are listening is when students don't achieve a grade four or above in their maths and English, they have to come and re-sit that qualification and for some students they may never achieve that qualification in the time that they're with us, whether that's a student with or without an EHCP, because of how the curriculum is.

Speaker 2:

So if they are, you know, maybe a grade three who just missed off, you know because of the classes and how FE works, because it's you know, such big class sizes or whether or not you're, you're grouping them by um kind of grade, which is very rare.

Speaker 2:

Now. We tend to group them by their curriculum area. So we'll have a group full of bricklayers in, for example, um, you know you've got a variation of levels. You've got somebody who might have just scraped an entry three functional skills, with somebody who maybe missed their exam. Actually they're in grade nine but they've come into that class. So you know, teachers for resits, which is is kind of my area is, you know it's it's so wide. We're dealing with a hell of a lot of motivational issues, behavioral issues. Um, you know, there's so much in those groups that we're asking educators to do and yet we still don't value them the same as the secondary school teachers that are maybe dealing with the same problems I mean you mentioned before about, you know, the learning walks and the support that is in place for colleagues at your place.

Speaker 1:

What do you, you know, just briefly give me an idea of how do you, how do you, function as a lead practitioner In? I mean, at least when I, if I pop into an art classroom, if I pop into a science classroom, there's fairly similar stuff going on. There's to be, you know, a teacher delivering some content. They might be sat in rows or whatever. I can understand the experiences across the building, but how on earth do you do that? For, you know, maybe you know people learn to cut hair. Then in the next room there's people learning to lay bricks. How on earth do you quality assure and support such a wide spectrum?

Speaker 2:

We're there to look at the teaching and learning experience from the student's perspective. I'm not there as a practitioner of hairdressing or bricklaying. So they're the experts. And you know, every FE teacher is a dual professional. They're a teacher but they're also a professional in terms of what they have. So whether that is they're an early years practitioner and whether they are an engineer, you know I don't know the engineering curriculum. I don't know bricklaying.

Speaker 2:

My dad probably tried to teach me years ago, you know, when I was he was a bricklayer and you know, and I know some things, but I don't know that how to do certain joints. I don't know how to do that. That's for them. And you know there's no other sector really where you can go in and say I need my hair cut, my car's broke down, I need some landscaping, can somebody come and help me? You know we have all of that and we learn from each other.

Speaker 2:

But I'm there in a learning walk to see what the student experience is like and I experiences like, and I'm not there to judge the teacher. I'm there to see how, how much am I learning in that classroom and how am I learning that classroom? How best am I going to learn in that classroom and for one teacher, with the students in that room, it might be that they have to have them in in a circle with a you know, a head block in the middle of a hairdressing. That might be the best way that they're going to demonstrate, but for some it might be that the best to go off and research. You know we have to think about other aspects like health and health and safety.

Speaker 2:

You know we can't just walk into a um, I don't know uh, fab and weld. You know we do fabrication and welding where we are, we have to make sure we've got the correct ppe and so you know it's about talking to students and learning about how they learn and we were able to then take that back and feed that back and we have internal verifiers who verify coursework and practical assessments, who might be a kind of team leader or, you know, general or kind of teachers are involved in that kind of quality assurance. So there's a lot of working together within that and it's about us working with teams and learning from teams, because I could go in and say with my background I'm an English teacher the best way that my students learn is hands-on approach, standing at the front walking around a market, but that's not going to work, for you know a plumbing classroom. Everybody sit down and fill the pipes. You know everyone is. They need to be out there. They need to be using industry knowledge, industry tools, and I love it.

Speaker 1:

I love going in and learning from it, because it's just a different experience what's really interesting that you just described there and you've almost turned me full circle here is that the fact that they are so different almost gets stuff out. Gets it, gets the nonsense out the way, because you are literally just focusing on the learning and I think talk about in schools about or just focus on the learning. But then what happens is and I've probably been guilty of this before as well I go into different subjects and I'm learning what different subjects and I think, yeah, focus on the learning. But learning to me is probably different to what it is to, uh, someone in a different discipline, let alone a different, you know, complete field and you know, with completely physically different demands. So I think it must be really interesting to be to go in and and really truly, I think that's something that fe can, can support the wider sectors here with in terms of what a true learning walk looks like, in terms of really what's happening in that space. I think that's incredible. And so you touched before on some pupils not being able to get that four, that five and that becoming actually.

Speaker 1:

I mean again, my little boy, it's funny. Last night he said he says I don't think I'm very clever, I thought you know my mates don't say I'm very clever and it breaks my heart when he says it because it's and I keep saying to him it's one, it's one way that there is a measure of, of getting a score and a test. There's so much else you can do. I mean, he makes me laugh every day. He's so witty you can't tell he's a nightmare to tell off because he's so quick off the mark. He comes back to you. It's so irritating, but that's a. I said it annoys me, wilf, but it's a sign that you know you're so bright and there's so much going on for you. So it just makes me think, you know.

Speaker 1:

What you said has made me reflect on qualifications and how fill the gap for lots of these young people, because I sense that, if you look, I mean let's take the english language qualification, because that's the one that is the most, is the most wide-ranging, isn't it right? So, uh, in terms of the implications, um, it strikes me that if you have a certain level of ability in terms of reading and writing whatever you want to call ability or whatever, or you know proficiency, that you it's, you're going to get a four or five probably. You've got a certain degree of of level there. Um, but I I just wonder is that what it's trying to achieve? Do you think that it's screening out the fact that if you don't have that very specific set of sub-skills and skills, well, you don't deserve to have a passing? Is that what the system is effectively saying at the minute? Do you think?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, in a way it's a standardised curriculum, isn't it that we're measuring every single 16-year-old against? It's kind of the major kind kind of baseline point, and it's the same for maths. What we don't measure is exactly what you're saying, andy, is we don't measure resilience, we don't measure confidence, we don't measure authentic voice, we don't measure creativity, we don't measure all those skills that you want to find in somebody when you go into a job interview, when when we're saying to students you know, go out there and be yourself. We're not measuring that within the classroom, we're not capturing that. And it's the same for maths as well. You know, math gcc resets are huge, even above english as well, and there's been a lot of kind of work and research done over the last four years with the center for excellence in maths, um, who have really worked with colleges and and created hubs around resources to support that mass anxiety. But ultimately, you know we're not providing. We're saying that the awarding bodies are saying we want to see you be creative, but not too creative. We want to see you, you know, write all this stuff, but it has to link to a picture. You can't pre-prepare something.

Speaker 2:

So you know, when we're trying to get students to really tap into what their interests are in a classroom. Their interests are far and wide. You know a lot of my students are really interested in writing about their own personal experiences. They're interested in talking about um, bullying and mental health and supporting people and charity and you know, homelessness and and people think is that what they're really interested in. Not all students want to talk about mobile phones. All students want to talk about um. You know rap music. You know I've tried to deliver a lesson on rap lyrics and for some students it just absolutely goes downhill. But you know, ultimately I'm a big believer myself in in giving students opportunities to talk about and write about what they're interested in. But unfortunately we don't measure them based on that and we fall part of into that kind of standardized. You know, answer this question, use this method. Does it meet the criteria? We're not saying to them come in and showcase all your brilliant skills that you can do in terms of writing.

Speaker 2:

One big thing that we really push in maths and English and in FA is that you know maths is integral for a lot of our courses. You know, if you think about hairdressing, we're thinking about measuring. We're thinking about ratio. If we're thinking about games, design, we're thinking about ratio as well, we're thinking about area and perimeter, we're thinking about plumbing or bricklaying or architecture. So it's really important that they have those skills and what we find is that in their vocational courses they get those skills, they can kind of do them is that in their vocational courses they get those skills, they can kind of do them, but the pressure of doing it within the GCSE curriculum and doing it under a pressure, they can't get it.

Speaker 2:

So a lot of work goes in behind the scenes with educators across college to really bring English and maths together. To say, hold up a minute, you're evaluating in maths, you're evaluating in English and you're evaluating in your level two floristry course. So how can we triangulate that? How can we really bring all that together because they can do the skills. It's just that, as we know, exam pressures are so much amongst all of that and what we've seen in the last exam cohort which is not not um uncommon with an FA and it may be the same secondary is that the amount of individual needs and exam access arrangements has gone through the roof and we're really struggling to meet all of them on a day to day basis.

Speaker 2:

And again, you know, in terms of funding and space and allocation, we're really having to work with students and a lot of students, many of our students, you know, can go into an exam hall, sit in an exam, but that pressure of being there in a large group can really, you know, knock them and actually they don't perform the best, but if they're on a room on their own, absolutely smash it. You know, I had a student who was in exactly the same position. Um, she just had real, real anxiety, um, diagnosed anxiety and depression and in, they put her in the hall, absolutely bummed out. The exam couldn't do it. Put her in a room on her own. She came out with a grade eight.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's space to think yeah, I taught a girl years ago. I never forget that she actually I bumped into a little while ago at the rugby, believe it or not. She came over to me and she was, like you know, delighted to, to catch up and whatever, and she was the same. She was a grade eight student, fully enough put her in an exam and I had this idea last night so this is an exclusive listeners I've I've I think I've saved the education system here. So I did have this idea because I've been working a lot this year and obviously in the sector I'm in, with AI and it's really amazing what it can do in terms of dictating conversations and then feeding back key points. It's, it's happened. It's really amazing what it can do in terms of dictating conversations and then feeding back key points. It's, it's happened. It's not 10 years, it's happening now. The apps are out there now for it and it's only going to get better.

Speaker 1:

I had this idea that you could, you know, deliver like almost a speaking style oracy, discussion presentation, because I know damn well that if you've got, for example, my, my little boy talking about a story that he'd read we've just finished reading Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire he asks questions, he clarifies, he can explain. What do you think has happened all the way through here? What's led us to this point? He's phenomenal and I just wonder whether you could have, for example, an AI listening, you know, an assessing AI that will then grade, rather than it being reliant solely upon. I'm not saying writing doesn't matter, because it is incredibly important, but I wonder whether this whole what you're saying here joining things up and I had a fantastic conversation in a pub the other day with a colleague who'd written a book on oracy and she really was arguing and I totally agree with this that fluency is under underpins oracy, reading and writing and I think until our exam system, until our education system starts to capture that, I don't, I sincerely believe this I don't think we are educating tomorrow's world effectively enough unless we really start to see and I have this with bedrock all the time we speak about the vocabulary, the grammar, our subject, specific area of mapper.

Speaker 1:

It's so incredible what we offer, but I spend so much of my time unpicking with schools. It's not a plug and play, that's off. It's about off, off the show off. You go and do your bedrock. It's about how it links to the oracy in the classroom. It's about how it links it, those incredibly important tier two words and the grammar insights and the mapper insights. How does that then feed back into the classroom as part of the much bigger picture? It's not. I think we're so very binary with everything nowadays and I think changing. We've got to get you know an fe in FE in no more. It is no better, you know, exemplified than what you just said about FE today.

Speaker 2:

I don't think yeah, I mean in terms of AI and technology. You know FE is really trying to embrace it and I think there's this kind of misconception around that. You know students are using AI all the time. Well, that might not be every student, it might be one in every class. So it's about how can we teach students to work with AI and technology because technology is so advanced now. You know We've still got reading pens going on, but actually Microsoft Teams has got an immersive reader, so that takes away the need to have, you know, individual readers for each individual student. You know it's a case of clicking it into the, maybe an iPad, or clicking it into the computer and playing it, or maybe even if they have it on their phone, if you've not got the resources to do that. I think there's so much. You know teachermatic's been really big, hasn't it across? Kind of the education field, and I know a lot of colleges have embraced that as well. Less so in terms of track GBT, I think people are playing with that, did you say?

Speaker 2:

teachermatic yeah.

Speaker 1:

I've never heard of that. What is that?

Speaker 2:

so it's um, it's an ai, an ai platform, and that's designed specifically for teachers. So you can put your curriculum, your syllabus, in there and it will create scheme of work, scheme of learning, it will do quizzes, it will do references, everything that you do. The whole package has been built um towards leaning what will help teachers on a really quick win. So we, we, um, we've had it. So I've recently moved colleges, so we've recently had it, I think the year before I started. So we're going into our kind of second year with it and we um work with, with groups of teachers to sit down and actually get them to, you know, play with it and um, I remember the demonstration, again going back to engineering. It was you know, give me three keywords about engineering, watch your syllabus, click and type it in, and it created. You know, give me three keywords about engineering, watch your syllabus, click and type it in, and it created a PowerPoint of that lesson within minutes, you know, and it's as quick as that. So a lot of colleges are buying into that and there's a recent report that went around saying it saves teachers around five hours a week in terms of planning and commitment, and time's so precious, you know, in terms of teachers in FE, we teach on average around 24 hours a week without cover. So you could be asked to cover. You know, above that, in your 37 and a half hours that you're there, um, and that's. You know your admin time's there, but your admin time leaves around what seven and a half hours ish. You know eight and a half hours ish, depending on how you work, your admin hours or admin blocks, um, you know, and how your curriculum works. Some teachers teach for three hour blocks straight. Some teachers teach for one hour blocks, um, some people run it for an hour and a half. So, really trying to get that time back in terms of planning the markings in tech and what we're trying to do in fa, um, so yeah, teacher math is great. I think track gpt has been utilized maybe less but it's, it's kind of still up there because it's got a lot more functionality in it.

Speaker 2:

But you know, in terms of into from FE into the workplace, they are, you know, leaps and bounds above what we can provide in the classroom in terms of just general technology. So we're trying to kind of, you know, work with employers because that's a big part of what we do is working with local employers, national employers, and say, you know, what are they going to be working with in your industry? What? What should we be investing in and how can we do that? And you know we've got this kind of push and pull of what do teachers need and what do students need. So I still think you know there's a lot of work to go on at the minute. But, you know, as we're moving towards that landscape and we've got some really fantastic people working on that at the minute within the sector. So you know, sammy white is a great ed tech um, you know person. We've also got, uh, kirsey ingleson.

Speaker 2:

So we're seeing lots and lots of more digital innovation happening and hopefully that's going to start to trickle down into into everywhere. And that's the impact that we want to get in classrooms is. It's not just about students, it's about how can we use it for teachers. Um, I think, going back to what you said originally in terms of about, you know, speaking and listening and oracy and fluency, and kind of moved on to talk a bit about that kind of penmanship. You know the level of penmanship that we see within the classroom is so low, you know, like we're talking at maybe ages like five and six, and the handwriting is so illegible that we have to get students using computers to in order for the examiners to then read that clearly. And you know we're gravitating more towards that digital exams.

Speaker 2:

Pearson is saying they want to make a promise for 2025 exams. Um, so you know, again, it's that kind of push and pull of you know, pearson might say one thing, but then other awarding bodies they do multiple choice exams for their students. So I'm probably going to go in and sit like a multiple choice exam off carpentry. It's a 10 10 question multiple choice exam for five minutes. So there's, there's so much around that kind of you know the skills of English.

Speaker 2:

Still, you know there's a lot to do and a lot to develop and and that's really where you know we we've got to work across college and we've really got to work. You know a lot of of gcc research teachers. We really want to understand the way in what that secondary works and and working with local schools to say, okay, so how have you been working with that individual in your class? How have you done that with their hcp or without it? Yeah, and what can we do to to kind of bring that into. It's a natural transition, because there's nothing worse than moving schools if they're in into college and we're treating them as adults and we're saying you know, we want that information to how you best learn. So how can we do that?

Speaker 1:

and I hope, I hope that in the future technology allows more of that to happen into, because realistically that can happen right now. But it's the the time constraint is there, isn't it to share information, and I think you know there's so much dynamic stuff going on in your setting and, um, you know, I massively appreciate, I know the listeners will really appreciate listening to, to lots of what you've said today. I think the teachers who are interested in going to work in FE potentially, and that type of thing. I mean, this is something I've never thought about as a teacher, but I think this sounds incredible. So, and what you do sounds brilliant. So, on behalf of the educational community, thank you and everyone in FE for what you're doing and I do hope that the pay rise comes to you guys as well. I'm, I, you seem like you more than deserve it, you know. So, yeah, full support to you guys and, uh, yeah, um, thank you for coming on, holly. That's, it's been a real pleasure listening to you.

Speaker 1:

Thank you so much thank you for having me please remember everyone to like and subscribe and all that jazz and email in as well. As ever, we're getting a few emails, so please, um, yeah, make sure you email into us and stay in touch as well. All right, thank you everyone, till next time.

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Andy Sammons

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