Bedrock Talks from Bedrock Learning
Welcome to Bedrock Talks, a podcast from the team at Bedrock Learning that delves deep into the heart of literacy in education. Hosted by the insightful and experienced educator Andy Sammons, this podcast stands as a beacon for anyone passionate about enhancing literacy skills and understanding its pivotal role in education.
Each episode is a journey into the world of literacy education. Andy brings together a diverse array of voices from across the education sector, from seasoned teachers to renowned academics, policy makers to literacy advocates. All of our guests share a common goal: to explore and expand the horizons of literacy education.
We go beyond surface-level conversations. Our discussions are in-depth, nuanced, and filled with insights that only years of experience and expertise can bring. We tackle a wide range of topics, from innovative teaching methods to the latest research in literacy, the impact of technology on reading and writing, to strategies for engaging diverse learners. Our aim is to provide a platform where the complexities of literacy are unpacked and understood in a way that is both accessible and enlightening.
Join Andy and his guests as they illuminate the multifaceted world of literacy. Subscribe to Bedrock Talks and be part of a community that believes in the transformative power of literacy. Together, let's shape a more literate, informed, and connected world.
Bedrock Talks from Bedrock Learning
19. Waltz with the machines: Navigating ChatGPT as a teacher
Ever wondered how AI can revolutionise education? Get ready to meet Patrick Hickey, the AI Teaching Guru, who turned traditional teaching on its head by embracing cutting-edge technology.
This episode features Patrick’s remarkable journey into the world of artificial intelligence, starting with his creative experiment of generating a prequel to the classic movie Home Alone using ChatGPT. We unpack the incredible potential and inherent limitations of AI in the classroom, shedding light on how it can assist in lesson planning, spark creativity, and support both teachers and students - while always emphasising the indispensability of human oversight.
Listen in to discover how educators can leverage AI tools like ChatGPT to simplify administrative tasks, differentiate content, and demystify complex concepts, effectively enhancing the learning experience and granting educators the "superpowers" they need to thrive in today's dynamic educational landscape.
About Patrick Hickey
Patrick Hickey is a teacher of 27 years and one of the UK's foremost thinkers on AI and education. He offers his insights and advice on navigating the exciting- albeit slightly terrifying waters of AI!
Hi everyone and welcome to this week's episode of literacy works, um with bedrock learning, or I should now call uh bedrock talks, as we're now uh calling ourselves um. This week got fantastic. It's really interesting. One again, one I sort of threw hail mary out to on um on linkedin, patrick hickey, who um is. Uh, I noticed him on a lot of my socials. He actually tweets and he's on various other socials at ai teaching guru um, and I think, as as we navigate the next few years of education, we're all going to need to um lean on the expertise of people like patrick, and not just what he knows, but his, his point of departure when it comes to ai and and how to interact with it.
Speaker 1:It's quite unlike, unlike anything I think any of us will have ever come across before in AI and how it's going to affect our lives. So I thought it'd be great to get Patrick on and hear his insights about artificial intelligence and the ways that it's going to change our lives, and it's unavoidable, inescapable. So welcome, patrick, and thank you for coming on. It's lovely to have you and thanks for making the time. It's an honour, andy, thank you. So if we could just start off, because obviously you're clearly an experienced educator. You've got a long track record in education, but obviously AI is a relatively recent thing, so it would be really good just to kind of get a sense of how about you and how you came into this field as someone who is now quite, quite well known in it I suppose, eddie, like I I am teaching all this is, I've actually just finished my, my 27th year.
Speaker 2:Uh, in ireland our school year finishes a bit, a bit earlier than uh than in britain, I gather but uh, yeah, I'm a history and english teacher. I've always had a huge interest in great teaching, great learning in terms of students and great technology, and I suppose I would consider myself and it's been said of me, I am an early adapter. I would have started off with chalk and talk, moved on to internet PowerPoint and then AI came on my radar last christmas and, uh, I suppose it happened in a funny way. Really, I was.
Speaker 2:It was christmas, I was watching home alone, like with my kids, had half an eye on tiktok as well, and a lot of teachers were talking about this, uh, chat, gpt. So I signed up very easy to do and had a play around. We finished Home Alone, popped the kids off to bed and I said to myself let's see what this can do. So I asked it could you write me a prequel, a prequel to Home Alone, where Kevin is visiting or his family go to Ireland and all the adventures that we're going to have? And I think within 30 seconds I had a blockbuster.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, I won't lie, I've done the same with various other sequels to the recent Ghostbusters film Similar. So anyone who knows me knows I'm a bit addicted to Ghostbusters. So, yeah, it's incredible, isn't it? I mean just the context being able to do that. It's just unreal, isn't it?
Speaker 2:In this case? No, we'd had again. Kevin was left behind and the family are in Connemara in the west of Ireland and the race is on to get back to him, you know. So the setting, the storyline, the characterization, it was all there. And as it was pretty early, the penny dropped for me that you know this had a lot of potential. Uh, I suppose, the more I delved into it I suppose I, you know, of course I am a teacher I began to wonder what would it do in terms of if a student had their hands on on ai?
Speaker 2:What could they do it in terms of their work? So I asked it to write a history essay, right, and uh, well, actually a history essay, right. Well, actually a history project. Part of our curriculum, students have to research and write a 1,500-word essay on a figure in history. And I asked her to write a project on Malcolm X. And I don't know anyone that's used Chachi PT, the way it just rolls out there in front of you and I suppose I read it and it started very well. And then I noticed mistakes and repetition and I was kind of saying, well, it's not very good at this kind of thing, but it can come up with ideas for great stories and great plot lines, like the other example. So I suppose that's something we've got to be aware of. There are things ai is very good at. There are other things.
Speaker 1:You need a human in the loop all the time well, that's where you know we we chatted briefly before about the importance of teachers and educators starting a conversation about ai and I think that's almost got kind of. It's got a couple of. There's a couple of meanings to that, because I spoke to Dan Fitzpatrick I'm sure you'll have heard of Dan Fitzpatrick in this sort of field and he one of the things he starts to talk about when it comes to chat GPT. For those of you who are not familiar with chat GPT, it's a generative AI that can basically, you know, do stuff based on the prompts that you give it really. That can basically, you know, do stuff based on the prompts that you give it really. And one of the things when you talk about doing stuff and you know giving you example answers, you know potential plots for films, whatever it is, you know you even grade this answer you know you can paste answers in.
Speaker 2:Tell me what this you know. And in terms of education, you're talking about dream lessons. You know those things I would have heard about in college when I was studying to be a teacher Bloom's taxonomy, which is an aspiration we'd all love to. You know, teach to all levels of Bloom's, but you're there as a young teacher and you know even as an older teacher. Where do you get the time to do these things?
Speaker 1:And I think that's where.
Speaker 2:AI is meant to come into its own in that regard.
Speaker 1:I think so that when I, what I was getting on to is this idea of having a conversation, because what dan said to me was it's not just about one prompt, that's it. It's about getting into a conversation about what it is that you want it to, you know with it, about what, what you want it to deliver for you. So if we, if we were, could you give me a little, a little bit of an example about why chat, gpt, for example, isn't just one transaction, why would you need more than one? You, I mean, you mentioned before about malcolm x. Let's say, write me an essay about malcolm x. You know 800 words, one and a half, one half thousand. Done what? Why is it important that we don't just accept its first response? Do you think, think?
Speaker 2:I do a lot of in-service with teachers in Ireland and internationally actually as well. But I suppose one of my slides there's an AI version of me waltzing an AI robot and I'm leading the AI because and I suppose in Ireland we have is it Dancing with the Stars or Strictly Ballroom, yeah, that idea. You know that you have a very good dancer, a professional, and you know a celeb who's trying their best. You know well, as you see, with that example, like as the celeb, as they progress, if they're picked, you know they get better and better all the time. But that's because of the work of the professional dancer leading them, directing them, giving them guardrails to do what they want them to do and what not to do.
Speaker 2:And I think AI works a lot like that. It's a waltz. You've got to lead in the right direction and once you have it on track, it can do very, very wonderful things. And I suppose the best thing of all you know, right, I teach in Ireland, you're based in Britain, you know, but I think across all countries, you know there's this huge debate around teacher burnout, the work-life balance. You know and I can certainly see. You know there's great potential in AI if you know how to use it and, you know, don't use it as a crutch either, you know. But it can really augment. Teacher, a great partner and, you know, research assistant.
Speaker 1:I agree, and I've found increasingly that often you know there's a level of cynicism about oh, if something's too good to be true, it usually is, and you put your Malcolm X essay into ChatBeatGPT and the first thing it spits out isn't great. I think where a lot of people are falling down now is they're saying, ah, it's not as good as what people say it is, and then they draw the line there as good as what people say it is, and then they draw the line there, whereas I think what you've just alluded to there is the importance of giving it parameters, of saying could you please, in the third paragraph, ensure that you mention this or discuss the significance of this? Could you also, for example, the other brilliant prompt that that dan gave me was the importance of getting it to evaluate its own response. Yeah, and it will tell you what it you know what would have been helpful for it as well. I mean, it's, it's weird this stuff, right, it's, it's, it's an odd conversation to be having with a piece of technology.
Speaker 2:Well, what I would say is, like you know and I suppose there's a big debate, you know, in terms of how far can a student use AI in terms of their own work and research, and I personally, I think there's a place for AI, you know, in terms of maybe generating an essay idea or brainstorming ideas or using it as a sounding board for ideas. You know, but don't expect it to write the perfect essay. That's not the experience I've had. And, like you use the example, they're going to paragraph three. You will go through every single paragraph, you know, and again, there's a to-ing and fro-ing, you know. You're telling it take that out, yes, take that out, because that's wrong, that's an hallucination. You know the term that's used for the mistakes that it makes. You know. I suppose the other thing we will come across, you know, would be Americanisms, american spelling, you know. You know those are issues also.
Speaker 2:So, while I would use it, I suppose if I was that student and I knew what I was doing, first of all I would discuss it with my teacher. We've got to have that conversation with our students as well and encourage them to, if they are going to use it, to use it ethically. But they must also understand that it won't write the essay for them. It can't do their learning for them either. You know, and plant that seed in every student's mind, that it will get things wrong. You know it won't do their learning or their homework for them. You know, it will, you know, but it won't. It won't do the learning that they need to do. You know, and like I say in a lot of my, in a lot of my my talks to teachers, students don't know what they don't know. You know like and the importance of cross-referencing, critical thinking is vital.
Speaker 1:You know, and that's something we all need to need to need to look at, and it's, it's almost now. Like you know, there's a, there's a, there's a. There's almost a need now for a different type of literacy. You know, thank goodness that literacy in my career so far has moved away from capital letters and full stops into sort of the field of disciplinary literacy and subject specific vocabulary, but how I think it's just so important that we now embrace this sense of critical thinking and critical literacy around. You know, yeah, it can't do my learning for me, but you know, my little boy actually boy um actually has has an Alexa, and I know it's a different form of AI, but it's amazing because he's using it to help him, remind him to do things.
Speaker 1:He you know it doesn't do it for him, but he's now interacting with the technology in a way that supports him with with his life, that supports him in a way that that that's enriching for him, and I think that's what we need to get our pupils, our learners, into the mind of thinking of is around this critical piece, and you know we did touch on our previous conversation about the role of critical thinking. I mean, you're a historian, so let's stay with you for a moment. Can you think of the types of critical thinking that pupils, learners who are beginning to use ChatGPT. How have you scaffolded this for them as learners?
Speaker 2:I have used AI with my students. It's there on my whiteboard and I would make a big thing in history. Yes, we have a textbook, yes, you have Mr Hickey's notes, but can you bring other things, little nuggets of information that would make you stand out? You know, again to get into research, and it was this year. Now a big topic in history this year is actually we study American history and we did the moon landing. And I said to a class let's get a timeline right of the things the astronauts did on the moon, from the time Neil Armstrong stepped on the moon One great step or one giant leap for mankind and all that. What exactly did he do? And we asked AI, can you generate that? We said take on the persona. And again, when you are prompting, you know people that are dipping their toe into this, give the AI a persona.
Speaker 2:And we gave it a persona of an expert in American history and can you give a timeline of all the things the astronauts did on the moon? And I was looking at it. You know, we looked at it together. Now we had done the book right, we'd read the chapter and we talked about the experiments, you know the phone call to Richard Nixon, all these things.
Speaker 2:But there was one glaring omission. I suppose the quintessential image we think of when it comes to the moon landing, that was missing. And of course that was the planting when it comes to the moon landing, that was missing and of course that was the planting of the flag, the American flag, the US flag, on the moon's surface. It left that out. And I'll tell you, Andy, I was never more happy, you know, because on one hand it had come up with other material I wasn't aware of. Of course, when you're not aware of something right, you cross-check it of. Of course, when you're not aware of something right, you cross check it. That was all verified. But it never mentioned the planting of the moon or the planting of the flag in the moon's surface. And I was able to go to students there and say what do you think of the output there? They were not impressed. So it's in the book.
Speaker 2:Look, we didn't need the book. We all know about the flag. It's still up on the moon, isn't it? The AI? Well, actually, chat gpt did not have that in its output, you know, and that's one thing, andy, I would say, like you know, when I'm using ai with my students, I'm I actually like him when he makes a mistake with them or in front of them, you know that I can jump on it, um, or even if it doesn't, if that, like, if there's something there and I kind of say, yeah, yeah, I know that, but we'll cross-check it anyway. Right, we'll cross-check. It means go to Google, find another source. You know, your class isn't very long. You can't be running off to a library to get a book, like you know. So that is my approach to it. You know, we can't ignore it, we can't bury our heads in the sand. Look, every kid that has snapchat or instagram or is on social media, they have ai, right, there's no doubt about that.
Speaker 1:But they need to know, while it's very useful, very helpful, it gets things wrong and it can leave out the, the bleeding obvious as well yeah, and I think that's really interesting because one thing I I started to do, um, as a teacher, was start to generate answers at particular levels and and use it to create waggles and less good examples and all that type of thing, and that was a that was forcing it to sort of make deliberate mistakes at a deliberate level. But what it can, what, what you can do is it can really force you and your learners to get into that critical level. What does a good answer look like? What is it that's included or that's not included? And I think there's just a whole layer of complexity here around that it can lay the platform for a discussion with your pupils about what brilliant really looks like in terms of level of detail, in terms of the way that, the way that an answer is being written, in terms of you know, turn of phrase and things like that. Because it is generic, it does you know, unless you're very, very clear with it. It can, because it's like you know.
Speaker 1:The one I always use. The example is, for example write me a, write me, write me an exercise, um on macbeth. What do you mean an exercise, macbeth? Do you mean a plot activity? Do you mean a quote recall? Do you mean a plot activity? Do you mean a quote recall? Do you mean a deeper thematic discussion? Do you mean act five, act four? Do you mean on a particular character? You can't just go up to someone and say write me a lesson on Macbeth. You need to be really and that's the level of a quality teacher is you know exactly what it is you're trying to gain and you're trying to impart when you walk into a lesson. Well, you should really be quite clear about what you want from your interaction with an AI, shouldn't you? And you shouldn't always take its first answer. That's the one thing that someone told me was don't take the first answer.
Speaker 2:No, I rarely do. You know, like any interaction I have with AI, like, let's be honest, the main AI I use is ChatGPT, like it's constant iteration. Chat GPT, like it's constant iteration, like it's constantly looking at it and, you know, tweaking it, you know, or maybe even let's start again, you know. So specificity is very important, giving it the right persona. And actually a tip for you there, andy, often add a two sentences at the end, um of of my prompts. You know especially. You know, if I, if I want, if I want guaranteed good output quickly, basically I'll say to it uh, do you understand what I want?
Speaker 2:all right if you don't if you don't, please clarify before you produce your output wow and and it comes back then and says you know, yeah, you want a lesson plan, but is it for a class that's one hour, or one hour 20 minutes, right? Uh, do you want differentiation strategies? Uh, if so, in what way? You know, and like something you know, if you you would think of if you had time, but again we're at the pin of our collars all the time.
Speaker 1:You know, um, it is so helpful again to be a young teacher starting off with this in your, in your tool, in your toolkit, it's, it's incredible, and and I think this is the paradigm shift that we need to undergo together is the fact that it not only can, but it requires that level of specificity. It requires that level of interaction and quality of thought from you as well. I think that's the other thing about chat gpt is it needs a certain level of quality of thought, because it's very easy to have an ill-formed view in your head of what you want and then giving like a half thought through prompt to chat gpt at the other end and then not holding yourself responsible, but holding chat. Be chat gpt responsible for something which you didn't give it clear enough instructions for. I think that's really, really important for people to think about. I think if you're, if you're not clear, it will you know it's it will. It won't tell you that it needs more, but it will come out in the wash in terms of the quality of the response, won't it?
Speaker 2:It will. But that workaround there, because you learn from the likes of Dan Fitzpatrick that you mentioned there. Linkedin is amazing in that regard, in the tips and great prompts you will pick up. But, as I say to teachers, you know like, you learn through experience, right, and like, even the way you were talking there was your macbeth exercise. You know um the importance of specificity. You know um the trial and error, right, and the to-ing and fro-ing that's, that's all part of it. You know, and I suppose, like just going back to an earlier point that you made, you know I suppose a lot of teachers like myself, when they started off with it and had a play, I wouldn't ask it kind of silly questions like write a love poem about my cat, that kind of thing.
Speaker 2:You know um, and then decided, oh, let's see what it can do in terms of serious work. Maybe weren't that impressed with the, with the, with the output, and said, yeah, it's overrated. You know that's all the fuss about. No, if you stick at it, uh, learn how to prompt it properly and effectively, you will.
Speaker 1:You know it's going to do so much for you yeah, and again, I think I think it's really important to not or, yeah, to stick at it and to, as I say, not blame chat gpt for poor output when I think we could have clarified our inputs more effectively. I think that's really important and I like the idea of it being like a waltz. I like the idea of it being, as you say, like it being like a dance, because this is all, all technology that people will have been used to in their lives up until this point, is transactional. You know, I press my remote and I turn the television on and I put the foot, put the football on, I turn it off. You know, I look at my watch to check the time I I pick up the phone and I dial a number. Everything is with technology, to an extent has been is to this point in civilization is very transactional. This is, this is not just transactional in one way. There's multiple layers to this, isn't there, and we've got to change our way of thinking, I think.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and on top of that it's the personalization of it as well. And again, to listeners that may be off the back of this will decide you know what no summer holidays are here. I'm just going to maybe have a little play around with this now in July and August before I head back. You know, I would say to them you know, look at the settings, go to custom instructions there. You know, don't give it too much personal information. In fact, don't give it any personal information. Just tell them you're a teacher. Too much personal information, in fact. Don't give it any personal information. Just tell them you're a teacher, right, what you teach, what you aim to do, right, in terms of you know, your teaching, you know, like, what kind of feedback do you give? But also include things like I want UK standard spelling and expression right, that'll cut out the Americanism. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And another one there for you, andy, is if you've asked it to help you write feedback, right, yeah, I would. Now, I don't. Actually, I suppose the way I would do it is maybe if I was reading a long essay, I would say to chat GPT, I'm going to give you rough notes which I'm going to speak into you or into my phone and I want you to convert that into a report that helps the student move their essay or project onto the next level. Now, that's me, that's my input, but I'm just telling it. These are rough notes and I suppose the quality and quantity of the output I'm able to produce by doing that is exceptional. You know, in fact I would say to people I'm giving the best feedback ever in my I suppose we can say long career at this stage 27 years, like to actually have to write that kind of feedback, you know, would take an age, but I can just speak it into my phone it's like a dictaphone, you know, write that up as a report and I can put that at the end of the student's work.
Speaker 2:But what I was spotting was it was very, very enthusiastic, Right and as well as it was kind of go way to go student, wow, that was some effort and really wasn't a great effort at all, you know, and I don't give that kind of feedback, no, I'm positive but I'm not over the top, you know. So I just tell it. You know I'm an Irish teacher. You know I give praise but not in an overenthusiastic manner, which I think maybe our colleagues in America are more inclined to do, which I think Chachapiti is based on, a lot of you know about the policy getting from America.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think I agree, and I think I mean this is really important, because I think one of the things that you talked about there was again that level of quality input, because when I look at, for example you did mention before about LinkedIn and various socials and prompt libraries Again, take them for what they're worth I would say it's not a one prompt is going to complete chat GPT for you. They're just ideas that the human is still very much in the cockpit here, aren't they? The human has to be in the driving seat and the teacher has to be the architect of what it it's getting out for the, what they're getting out for their learners, right, and that's I certainly getting that from you in terms of this is not a pod you can listen to and then, oh, you've done chat gpt. Now. This is about a way of thinking and a way of interacting with this piece of technology, isn't it?
Speaker 2:but like it. But it's a necessity because I can remember the disruption that social media caused right, yeah. Especially Bebo, do you?
Speaker 1:remember Bebo Andy, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Right, okay, bebo has come and gone, but students went to Facebook, right?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:They moved on to other things. You know some more Instagram and Snapchat. That's where students go to, yeah, but look, you know it's more instagram and snapchat. That's what our students go to tomorrow, but look, I suppose we've always we've never been on top of it.
Speaker 2:You know, and I suppose today, now we've there's issues around well-being fomo, all right, um, you know, student mental health.
Speaker 2:You know a lot of it is coming from what they're getting from their, from their socials, like you know, on the over the, the expectations that are set for them.
Speaker 2:They're like, you know, but like I think you could basically say if we could start on this together, as opposed to let students off on their own and misuse it or not use it ethically, you know we are going to put ourselves, we're going to be on the back foot all the time, you know, and that's going to be doing our students a disservice as well, because, in order for us to deal with AI right now, you could have listeners there who are saying, oh, that's not for me. You know, it's for your students. Right, they are going to use this, they're going to embrace this. You know it is vital that we get our heads around this, you know and you know. So we're in a position at least to be able to understand what they're using and why they're using it. And if they are going to use it for doing their homework or as a fast pass for homework, you know we have to be in a position to explain to them. Yeah, it'll do it but that's not learning.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and, and this is the thing I think people get worried about, you know the social media and the whole moral panic about all these things, these things.
Speaker 1:You can't change these things, but what you can do is you can model healthy behaviors around them and you can certainly kind of have fun with it at the front of the class.
Speaker 1:You can certainly show that you're you're the kind of person that's able to interact and and be someone that's that's a that's comfortable with these things in your lesson, and I think that's able to interact and and be someone that's that's a that's comfortable with these things in your lesson, and I think that's the important thing here is that you know not being scared to go on a learning journey with your, with your pupils, with this.
Speaker 1:So, as you know, one thing I really wanted to um make sure that we got into the conversation today was and we've touched on some of it already is what, what advice would you give to teachers now and I'm talking about teachers who may well never have even heard of ChatGPT, you know as someone who's an early adopter, who's great at these things, who's obviously, you know, clearly leading enough in this sector for me to reach out and ask you on this podcast. You know, you clearly know your stuff. Okay, Without embarrassing, you clearly know your stuff. What's your advice to teachers who maybe have never even heard of this incredible thing before Number one?
Speaker 2:try it, right, don't put this off. Try it now. Number two all right, forget about the love poems to cats and you know all that kind of stuff. Think to yourself what's the least favorite part of your job? Now, you have a great job, right, there's no doubt about it. We love what we do. You know, like we have the best job in the world. But there are things that get in the way of great teaching, great learning, right? Is it the admin work? Is it writing lesson plans? Right? Is it differentiating? You know which? We would with a heart and a half. We all want to do it, but it's a lot, a lot of hard work.
Speaker 2:And I would say to you have a class in mind, maybe have a student in mind, right, that's having difficulties, right? You don't name the student. You know, you could say the AI. This student has a reading age of 10, right, they're in a class with 14 and 15-year-olds where I have to explain the electoral system in Britain, right? How can I explain that to a 10-year-old? Okay, and off it will go. It will produce that output.
Speaker 2:You know Now, obviously you won't. Maybe you might go to the in Ireland. Now we have SNAs Special Needs Assistance. You know Now, obviously you won't. Maybe you might go to the in Ireland now we have SNA, special Needs Assistance. You know you'd go to that person and say I think Johnny might have a bit of trouble with this. Would you mind going through this, these notes on it, so he'll know what I'm talking about when we deal with it in class, you know. So I would say to teachers come at it from that point of view. This is serious technology. This will transform your life, your work and I have no doubt in saying this, it will give every teacher that uses it properly, uses it properly and ethically, superpowers.
Speaker 2:And that's, superpowers with a capital.
Speaker 1:S the capitalists. Yeah, I, I couldn't. I couldn't agree more and I think it. But one thing we have to get, really, I think from having spoken to a lot of teachers, it is about that mind shift. It's about having a bit of a creative mind mind shift around, um, a shift around how, how to use it in your planning. It won't produce beautiful powers that are exactly stunning for every pupil at the click of a button, but it's more about the kind of, as you said, the differentiated content, the simplified definitions with appropriate analogies. It's more of those things which actually are time consuming that you might find frustrating at times, but actually it can create resources, it can create tailored explanations and it's all of these things that you can use it for to really make your life a lot simpler. Um, but there is, at the moment there's, no playbook, is there really? It's just about, as you're quite rightly say, having a go yeah.
Speaker 2:So I suppose I would say to that you know, I think, rather like yourselves, you know, in Britain, in Ireland, it is the case, you know, like, I suppose, our leaders in education, our Minister for Education, like they are slowly but surely getting to grips with this. You know, but certainly, if I had my way, every single teacher in Ireland should and Britain, any teacher that's there should be given CPD on AI To know what it's good at, what it's very good at and where it falls in.
Speaker 1:I don't think that's a particularly controversial thing to say. I agree. Thing to say, I I agree. I think you know, certainly, if I was still working in a school, I'd be looking to provide my own team and the teams I would line manage potentially um quality cpd around this to help them. You know three or four tangible ways of cutting your workload right now, because once they've dipped their toe and once people have dipped their toe and they will start to see the benefit of this incredible tool, um, as you have done, I mean, and obviously I mean what, what? Where do you see this going in the next six to twelve months, you know, before we finish, what, what, what do you think will start to happen? Is there anything? Do you have any predictions over the next six to twelve months in it, or?
Speaker 2:any that that is a hard question because there is so much happening in this area at the moment. You know, of course, like there are billions, if not trillions, of dollars being plowed into this. You know, because certainly the future is here, whether we like it or not. Ai is, you know, it's lapping at our shores, right, and I think the tsunami, right in terms of its use, it's probably coming in the next school year, you know. I think you know it's vital that teachers get into the space. You know school leaders look at things like policies. You know, around plagiarism. You know how far can a student use it, you know. So that was something like that needs to happen in the next six to 12 months. But, like, I suppose the other thing we're going to see and it was just announced there three weeks ago like the upgrade in ChatGPT.
Speaker 2:I think most people have used ChatGPT 3.5, which is the free version. I'm a ChatGPT 4 user, so I paid 22 euros or 20 sterling. It would be a month to use it, and if people are using 3.5, you're basically on a push bike. I've been driving a Ferrari, right in terms of the output that I've been getting, but every single person that signs up to ChatGPT. They're getting the new model, which is 4.0, right, 4.0, omni, and it is. It's basically what I'm paying for. You don't have to pay for it anymore, right? That level of output, that quality. You know, with the glitches and the hallucinations that we still have to iron out, um, but I think that's that's where ai is going to take off. You know, because people who've used 3.5 and said it's repetitious and it makes mistakes, you know when they go back to it they're going to find a far better ai model in 4.0 and I think that's a that's a good place to finish, because that's that's where it's going to get a lot more fluid.
Speaker 1:And and I think that's a that's a good place to finish, because that's that's where it's going to get a lot more fluid and dynamic, I think, um, in the next six to twelve months, and I hope people can go along with that as well. Um, patrick, thank you so much for your time. Um, it's been so insightful. I can't wait to get this, get this episode released. Thank you so much. Very good thanks, andy and um. All the very best for the next six to 12 months, and I hope you navigate those waters really well as well. Take care, all the best to listeners. Bye-bye.
